The Breakdown #773: Crypto, AI, and Market Trends Recap

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Conducting an emergency repair on a global communication satellite that could go dark at any moment. We have a second angle of this. Is that guy on FOMO? How many of you would like to see him for a crazy trade? Yeah, let's get back to it, everybody.

There we go, United States of America, representing social and communism does not work. Digital assets, is it better to move money at the speed of light? People are greedy when they also try to acquire gold. They are here providing electricity and that energy that is necessary.

I'm the Moner Dave Tony Sparks. Welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, you are now tuned in to the motherfucking best show on the goddamn fucking planet.

That is right, the breakdown episode 773. It's true. Oh, it's 100% goddamn true. Sponsored by Midnight, the title sponsor Midnight. Also, if you haven't signed up or looked at Midnight City, you're missing out.

Tomorrow we'll go diving into Midnight City. Maybe Landi will participate with me. Maybe you won't. Maybe it'll be me by myself. By the way, shout out to everybody who tags me. When you see my AI agent in Midnight City,

it would be good for you to go ahead and take that screenshot. Tag me so I can see you, so we can go ahead and start this gang that I'm talking about. Anyway, also, Polly Market. Shout out to Polly Market. Polly Market is the future prediction market

sponsor of the Breakdown. We'll dive into some of the topics. And I just want to, I want to see the presidential, even though we looked at it yesterday, I do want to see the presidential election winner in 2028.

I want to see if it changed or not. Vance was in the lead yesterday. So shout out to Polly Market. Cake wallet, okay? Cake wallet, the most secure wallet, one of the most secure wallets that we have in this space.

If you're skeptical about holding your stuff on some of these cold storage products, maybe look at Cupcake, maybe get an old iPhone factory restore that shit. And I don't know. Maybe hold it on that iPhone.

We'll get into that. We will get into that kind of conversation. Also, FOMO, me and FOMO, FOMO and me, me and FOMO, and FOMO and me are family. That's right. You can watch me on FOMO.

I'm going to come out with a link. I'm going to make an official official type of introduction for myself coming on to FOMO so I can wipe the asses of anybody traded on there and you can literally see me put a thesis on why I am going into certain things.

Yes, that is going to be fucking exciting electric when I go on there. Oh my God, the ratings will go up. Shout out to FOMO for being a sponsor of the breakdown. Kumbaya, my lord. Kumbaya.

Kumbaya, my lord. Kumbaya. Also, we have a, so before we get started with news, Goksteinmedia.com, which is the parent company for Gokstein.com, Goksteinpr.com, GMarkets.io, and other things to come, other products that we are coming out with.

Let me just showcase it. I'm obviously always excited when things are coming out. I am always, always excited, excited. When am I not excited? Always excited. But here we go.

Here is the official Goksteinmedia.com parent company website, the independent media company. Again, shout out. Shout out to us. We're doing big things. Here you can find all the assets that the parent company owns.

Okay, you can go on here and you can look. You got Gokstein.com, obviously GMarkets. And you got Gokstein PR. We have more. We have more coming, more things and more properties coming. Also, you can go on there and you can see who,

listen, a lot of people are asking me, who is part of the lineup? Who's a part of the network? Well, you can find the network and the roster on here. Okay, you can find it on here. Goksteinmedia works with independent hosts

and contributors, talent who run their own shows under the network banner. The official roster is public, current and a single source of truth for those who represent the company. Again, we got myself. We got Rob Nelson.

We got Taylor. We got Crypto Landy. We got more to come. We have a lot of things in the pipeline. Okay, got a lot of things in the pipeline. So yeah, if you want to stay up to date

with what Goksteinmedia LLC is doing, here's the site, Goksteinmedia.com. That's right. Also, let's check out while we're talking about what's happening in the world today. Let's go ahead and check out what's happening

on Goksteinmedia, excuse me, on Gokstein itself. Let's go ahead and switch over here. And also, anytime we go live, you can see the pop-up will pop up. The pop-up will pop up. You'll get a pop-up that pops up

and you'll go ahead and get to see it. Let's go look at the latest news. A cold card exploit drives July crypto thefts to $247 million hardware, wallet breach, DeFi hacks and bridge exploits made July the second worst month for stolen digital assets in 2026.

This should not be happening. This should be not be happening in crypto. Absolutely not be happening in crypto. This right here, $247 million stolen in July alone. This should not be happening. Let me just bring in Landy because he's already here

and I don't really have much of a monologue. Good morning to you, Landy. Shout out to you. What's going on? Hey, good morning. Can you hear me okay?

I hear you perfectly fine. Perfect. Look, I know you're going on the cold card tally of crypto thefts right now. While it's unfortunate, this is a vendor-specific problem and a very big one.

One of the major issues is small company, large reach through a lot of the known Bitcoin maxi circles. Of course, we get this news on an update of where the money is lost as Bitcoin pumps to all the levels that we were talking about yesterday and the day before and the week before, which is really, really crappy. Because now people have lost their money, Bitcoin runs off the lows.

It's not a fun time for some of those folks. I feel for them. I actually found out that there's some folks in my circle that got hit by this. Now, there is teams, though, that are working to try to remediate, and there was even white-hacking teams that went out and tried to sweep some of these wallets so that bad actors couldn't get them.

So, yeah, it's really a crappy situation. Yeah, it's not a good one. And obviously, it's not $247 million from the cold card exploit. It's just exploits, in general, within the month of July. It's come out $247 million, and that's along with Harmony 1. Yeah, and you've got, well, $150 million or more of that is that cold card.

But it's just, again, it's totaling it to be the second worst month for this kind of activity, which sucks. It really does absolutely suck. And I've already beaten this like a dead horse here, and I've said that they should have had, these companies should have put at least 10% to 15% of their money into security.

Bottom line, and that might be a little amount. Maybe it should be 30%, because you have customers that are trusting you. Obviously, we've had Trezor with the third-party data breach, and it's not good. It's not good, and it should not be happening. That's all I can say. I agree.

And I don't know, before you came on here, I went ahead, I wasn't just talking about this. I was just talking about where everybody can go ahead and find the Gocene Media LLC company, and it's holding, our website is up now. That's right.

Website is up now. We've got three public properties. You've got the goxene.com news website. You've got the Gmarket site, and you've got the Goxene PR site. You also got more products coming, so stay tuned. But again, you can check them out on here.

And obviously, for the latest, you want to find out who's on the roster, who you can go ahead and follow on the Gmedia network. It's all here. I'm excited about this. Things are going up. Independent company, no VC.

We don't need nobody. We're going to make this shit work. You know what I'm saying? Back to the news. The news of today. I've been using obviously the Gocene website for news, as it's kind of replaced my

terminal aggregator behind the scenes here that I told you I've been using for a while, because it's just a nice, easy place to go and check what's going on. And the Livewire especially has been very helpful, because then I can dig into stories straight through the website, or I can do some search right through wherever that story originated from, companies directly and all the rest.

So it's been very, very handy. I hope that people are checking it out and using it and bookmarking it. It's only going to get better. And there is a, of course, I got already hit with the visibility shit from TikTok. And at this point, I can care less. We will be on Instagram.

We will be on Facebook. And hopefully there will be less of this bullshit that we have to go through. So it is what it is on TikTok. I think primarily the staff will be cutting up clips from this show. And we'll be putting it out there so we can go ahead and get visibility on there. Obviously, I don't know what's happening, but we cannot come to

ideal here with TikTok where they can acknowledge that everything that's being done here is from our company. We are producing the show. This is our copyright trademark, whatever, man. It is ours. So it is just weird that we have to go through this day in, day out with TikTok,

especially when we have a really good audience on there. Anyway, upgrades coming for Goxineen.com. It's already working great. I'm going to tell you right now. And yeah, I'm biased, but I used to go to other places. Now I just go to Goxineen.com to get my news.

Bottom line and the next upgrade that comes will be even more news and opinion pieces and whatnot. So shout out to everybody who is using Goxineen.com. It's free. It's free. You imagine that?

It's free. No paywall. It's free. Okay. Vlad calls for US tokenized stock rules. What is it?

One glaring gap as on-chain volume hits $9 billion. Obviously they had a converse. So a lot of people missed the boat on this. There was a press conference. You had the SEC there. You had the CFTC there.

They both spoke. Both leaders spoke there. I like what the CFTC did. The leader there, Mike, comes out and he says that Paul is one of the greatest of all time, essentially. And they were like, he was continuously bashing Gary.

Okay. Bad news. Gary was continuously thrown under the bus there. You also had the twins from Gemini there. You had Vlad. You had one of the CEOs.

I think he's the CEO from Kraken there as well. They were all having a conversation. But it was bullish. The CFTC is coming out with their guidelines. You have the SEC come out with their guidelines. And there's major talk about the Clarity Act being passed on September 15th.

So whether that happens or not, who knows. But again, there is conversation stating that it will be passed on the 15th. I had Parianne Boring on here yesterday. You know, we dove into those topics. She's not so bullish on the Clarity Act being passed. But again, I hope it does.

But then again, I turn to, it's what she also said. In 2014, it's turning to the IRS now. After all these things are done, it's time for the IRS to, I guess, change what a cryptocurrency is and call it a currency rather than a property. Because if you're treating it as a property, then you're treating it as a security. And these conversations need to go ahead and be had.

And they need to be done, especially if we got a pro-crypto administration in this goddamn fucking house right now. We need to go ahead and get this done. Your thoughts here, Landy. I agree. Well, I actually 100% agree with you.

I also agree with Parianne that it's very unlikely that it's going to be passed. At minimum, it's not going to be passed as is. And I actually hope that it's not passed as is. I hope that some of the guidelines and some of the feedback that the SEC is going to get and the CFTC is going to get as well as the administration when it comes to some of the proposed regulations.

I hope that this actually results in some things actually moving in the right direction for that bill and it not just being the big nothing burger that it really is at this particular moment in my personal opinion. Look, I'm not going to go point by point. I'm sure Charles will bring it up later, right? You know, it's one of those things of like great.

I'm glad that the administration is doing something. Now, how about Congress? That would be awesome if they could actually provide some direction and codify some things without just making a banker friendly bill. And I get that Brian Armstrong has been the most vocal prominent one in the media. He's not the only one, obviously, is like, okay, I'm okay with the direction this is going.

I don't care if he's okay with it. I care if it's actually a good bill, right? I don't care if it's going to help Coinbase specifically or this company or that company specifically. I care if it's going to be a good bill. And it's not a good bill as it stands right now.

So, I mean, I've got some strong points that I've talked to you about. You have mentioned her again, Parianne Boring, who has obviously worked tirelessly for years. She's worked inside of Congress and she feels like, hey, we need to pass a bill in order to get shit going. So, I agree, but two percent of all bills are ever passed, right? So, I mean, pass the bill and then work at it.

But I also agree. I've said this before, though, why pass and build that shitty? And then in the day, the look, let's keep a let's keep a real the the clarity act is clarity for the banks. It's not clarity for doesn't provide much clarity for retail for banking focused institutions.

Yes, because it's not just for retail. It doesn't do a whole lot. It's the trickle down effect. It literally is the trickle down effect, which is not what not what you want to see because it it doesn't actually provide any of the clarity that it's literally the bill's title is clarity.

It doesn't provide any clarity for others. There is some bits of of regulation that it would codify and some things that it would allow for. But within a very strict box, right? It's not actually doing much of what we would want to do. And it's leaving it up to the regulators instead of codifying things. Yeah.

So maybe the regulators can push that forward. And I know that the Trump administration has been hard at work on and from the various regulatory bodies kind of pushing Congress as well. Yeah. You have to forgive the background noise. We're we're having some construction done over here.

Okay, good. But yeah, you know, that this is something that I think is is going to be talked about all the way through the end of the year, because I don't think it's going to happen in September. To me, you know, at the end of the day, the most bullish news that I personally see is the SEC coming out with their guidelines. I think that's bullish.

I also think the CFTC coming out with their guidelines is bullish. So you have two bodies that used to number one, they during the Biden administration, they didn't talk much. Okay. It's like they just didn't. And but you now have two agencies that are unified in their approach.

So that's great. The pro crypto, the pro the pro free markets. That's how I look at it. And that's great. And especially crypto is if you don't like Trump, I get it. I totally get it.

You guys don't like Trump for whatever the reasons are. But if you're a crypto bro and you're and you really aren't diving too much into politics and all you care about is crypto or the traditional markets or just markets in general and you want to participate, then I don't see how you're not happy with Trump or the administration. They're trying.

And I really do think this will be the biggest victory for Trump, at least from the crypto side. And also for Vance, because Vance got to look at this as well. He's running 50 million plus. Maybe that it's probably more now. 50 million plus Americans hold cryptocurrency.

We're heading in that digital direction. So for Vance, it's important that they get this shit right with the IRS. I'm serious. All over the place where these where main street and retail understand how to operate, then nobody's, then nobody's clueless when it comes tax season. We've had, we've had accountants on here, CPAs on here with Andrew Gordon on here.

He talked about it. We need to get that. We need to get that done. I would rather dad get done before the Clarity Act, to be honest with you. That before the Clarity Act, because the Clarity Act, again, I'm not a bank and it means nothing to me.

Okay. I don't know when a bank so mean shit to me. Yeah, it really doesn't. No, I agree. Look, I mean, it will provide for at least direction for a lot of the platforms that many of us use to obtain crypto and buy and sell crypto, but it doesn't do a whole

lot for us outside of it. The only other thing that it does do is if you are front running the markets and you've nailed in your positions, which are hopefully are good positions in your portfolio. If the Clarity Act does pass, that means that liquidity will be injected and the top assets within the crypto space will go up. Yeah.

So you will have an influx of not millions, not billions, but trillions of dollars that come in. But again, they will come into the real assets. Okay. And not your favorite meme token that came off a pump.fun just now. I'm just saying.

If you're in a telegram chat right now and they're telling you Clarity Act passes and our meme goes up, get out right now. Unfollow, get out, block everybody. Okay. Because that's not happening. I promise you, I'm helping you out here.

Well, look, I'm not getting too happy. Yesterday we on the show, Bitcoin was sending Ethereum was sending a lot of things were moving markets are green. People are happy attitudes change. Okay. Today, same thing.

People are happy. Bitcoin has gone up. It is going up. Ethereum is going up so long. Everything's up. It's green.

Landy. I'm still I'm not again. I am. I'm happy. I'm happy that people are happy. But at the end of the day, I'm waiting for the pullback.

What are your thoughts? Well, I mean, we've been talking about this yesterday, last week, the week before, and for like six, eight weeks, right? We've been talking about, at least I've been talking about specifically watch Bitcoin in the range between 62 and a half and 65. And we need to see closes more importantly, not just swings below and swings above.

We need to see closes above to go run the more recent highs at 67 on its way to test 68 to 70. Said this yesterday when it was, you know, trying to break out. And then where did it go? We hit 68 to 70. In fact, we hit 70,000 and 36 bucks yesterday on the high.

I said, take it $2,000 at a time to the upside because there's resistance about every $2,000. So, you know, yesterday we got the high in at 70, got a little retest of, you know, $69,000. And then a push up to 70 to 72, right? So above 70,000, it's 72,000, pay attention to this area. If we start to get closes above around 72,000 to 72,200, you know, I would expect to see prices start to head up to the next big area.

Which is around $74,000 to $76,000. And I mentioned yesterday that's where things actually get pretty darn interesting. Because above there, you know, is the area that we had just recently retested, you know, once you start getting above $76,000 for Bitcoin, it's all about the monthly area that was the prior higher low on a closing basis and higher low on a swing basis. So you had the swing higher low and that was the last higher low of the bull market

at 74,744 area. And then you have the close open at 82 and a half. Now we've previously tested this area before, but above $76,000, that puts us above the higher low of the bull market that's been broken down from. On its way to possibly retest that 82 and a half monthly yet again. This is obviously where we rejected last time.

But that's where I'd be paying attention, right? So if we continue to push on above $72,000, especially on closes above around $72,000, that does open up $74,000 to $76,000. Above there, we could be looking at a retest of the last big high that we put in on the monthly before the run to $57,750, you know, that sweep of $58,000. And that's where kind of the rubber hits the road.

We'd have to see how things kind of close in and around there. But I would just exercise, you know, just, you know, be even keeled as you're watching price action in and around some of these key areas right now. For Bitcoin and all of the relevant majors, they're all in a very similar position for the top caps in crypto. Bitcoin obviously leading the way.

And a nice short squeeze up to these areas. I'd mentioned to you last week and, you know, the week before, when we're looking at the current range that Bitcoin was trading in at the time, which was between 62.5 and 65, you had a lot of asks or sales right overhead. And you had a lot of bids right below. And price was going to gravitate towards one of those two sides, right?

To hit stops, liquidations, and orders for fills. And it shows the upside. And now we're getting that, you know, from that compression to expansion and volatility. We're getting that. It's a beautiful thing to watch and enjoy the green days. Enjoy the green days.

Because as soon as what goes up must come down, doesn't mean that it's going to be all over and it's not going to push any higher. But as soon as it puts in a red candle day, everybody's going to be right back to dooming, right? So it's more about watching the price action, watching the conditions, watching the levels that you're interested in.

And something that you and I have been very consistent about. And a lot of the stages that I go and talk on, obviously, you're familiar with the Wolf crew and the ATC crew. One of the things that you, I, and as common amongst even the trading crews, has been in the $60,000 area and under, it was all opportunity. And will continue to be opportunity upon any retest, $60,000 and under.

I mentioned to you last week, and this was starting about a week before, I talked to you about institutions flipping long for the first time in a very long time. CME, we saw interest, aggregate open interest flip long. And we don't see that very often with CME. We saw that a lot of the shorts and short interest was evaporating

on a lot of these spot ETF shares. So a lot of the institutional players were looking for this to come up. You know, the big seller in some of these areas. Now granted, this was a couple of weeks ago at this point was Michael Saylor, was as one of the larger institutional sellers. Now granted, in the more recent weeks,

it's just been MSTR stock that they've been selling to bolster their reserves. But you know, this is an environment where as soon as the move kind of was going to get rolling, it was probably going to be a very, very quick move. We had a giant candle yesterday. We've got a really good size candle today. And you know, just yesterday from close to close,

you had a $4,600 candle from swing to swing for Bitcoin. You know, we were at, you know, what was it like $5,500 or something. And we haven't seen that in a while. The last time we really saw candles this large on the daily for Bitcoin, unfortunately, it was to the downside, right? So it's nice to see them back to the upside grab some liquidity.

And then we just kind of see where things where the dust settles. Yeah, it's a it's nice to see. But again, I'm a land is about to faint. But I am waiting for one last one last sweep. As the TA bros call it one last sweep. Very highly likely, very highly likely.

But again, like it's what I said yesterday, Landy. It's something that you can hope for. But you know, I was talking to somebody. I was talking to somebody and I said, at this point in time, I would be DCA. So like if you have, if Bitcoin was in the 60s, DCA, right?

Yeah, we've been talking about that. It's just in case this goes up, right? You're not caught off guard. Like this could, and I know like, Landy, you're the 70, 30, the 30, 70 shit is still in play from your side. But I'm saying hypothetically speaking, we nobody knows, right?

Landy, would it be fair to say nobody knows? Like we can do our best to analyze the market, but nobody knows when it will decide to go absolutely through the roof and upwards. Like you just don't, we don't know when the bottom hits, right? Seriously, that's a fair statement. I would say that nobody knows where price is going to go,

but you can set very clear conditions and be very, very accurate in where it's going to go next. But maybe, just maybe the bottom is in. Well, there's a lot of babies. Maybe I'm really a woman talking to you right now. That is for you to go ahead and tell everybody, not me.

It's not my place. I don't play with babies though, David. I don't. It's all about the data. I don't know, man. I'm a trader, and this is what I was talking about yesterday.

As a trader, and as somebody that's been hedging a large position in Bitcoin for a very long time, I hedge in the bull markets. What I will tell you about Bitcoin right now is my hedge is to the upside. When we're in a bull market, I'm hedging for a potential downside on the pullbacks. In a bull market around the highs, I'm in short positions, and I'm hedging my portfolio for drawdowns in the bull market.

When we're in a bear market, I'm hedging to the upside because I'm already short. I'm hedging that price is going to go higher like I've talked to you about. It hit my orders. 58 to 60 is where I was looking, and I talked to you about this for a long time since we were actually in a bull market. 58 to 60 was one of the key areas that I was going to DCA and really DCA heavy.

I hit my first tranches of orders for DCA there, and I took longs. I had actually 62 and a half. We talked about this when it spiked down to 62 and a half on Friday. I told you I was in a long position. Why? Because I was already short from the range highs. I went long on the range lows at 62 and a half to 65.

I'm willing to get stopped out on one side or the other. I got stopped out on the short side, riding the long side up, nice winning position. That's a hedge. Now, when it comes to could the bottom be in? I've had this discussion with people till I'm blue in the face. A bottom does not mean the bottom.

So if we close the monthly above $67,000, we will get a bottom. It will be a low on a higher term timeframe like a monthly. But does that mean that it is the low? No, not necessarily. Even if we pump substantially higher, where do things change? And this is for the audience as much as it is kind of a repeat of what I've been

kind of talking about. If we were to get a close above $82,800, which is the last monthly lower high, then things significantly change because that would be a trend break. Then it's all about the next move down. It doesn't matter how high price goes. If it trend breaks, great.

Enjoy the ride. It's all about where it retraces to when it eventually does correct back down because things do not go up in a straight line. They never do. And I know that a lot of people miss it. I get it.

I totally get it. I understand. My, my debate here with you is more so tunnel vision. I think that was what was used yesterday. Yeah, sometimes we get so stuck like a developer gets so stuck on one thing they can't see everything happening from the other.

So it's kind of like, I agree. Could, okay. Can we go down into, could it go back to 57? Listen, if it goes back to fucking four quarters, like I can care less. Yeah. I'll go up.

That's not my, I don't have fear in this. For me, it's just so the possibility of this maybe going from 30 to 70 to 50, 50. Oh, that, that would change if we do break above 80 to 800, especially on closes for the weekly that lead into a monthly. This would be a 50-50 for me. Then it does shift very heavily in favor of the bulls.

Because you understand what I'm saying. At some point, the 30-70 has to shift and say, you know what? Yeah, that's where much I think it's here. Yeah. With the data, with the data available to us. This, I got to change it to 50-50.

Well, I would say to you that. And I'm not pushing you to do anything. You get where I'm coming from. No, I, right here, right now, there's two, there's two paths that would change my mind and split that to a 50-50 low as in. Is if we were to put in a lower high here, come down, sweep the lows and put in a higher low.

Right. Like let's say, so the last lower high is at 80 to eight for the monthly. That, that's what really confirmed the reversal. We went down, we made new lower lows. Okay. Great.

Well, if we were to break above there, then it shifts to 50-50 because it's about the next move down. Alternatively, let's say we put in another lower high that is below there. Let's say it's a, it's $75,000. I'm just, just throwing a number out there. Let's say we put in a lower high right there. And then we come down, we sweep the lows and we put in either a higher low close,

an equal low close or a bare bait wick where we swing it, sweep it, close above. I would tell you that would actually be the preferred route to be honest with you because that would start to look like seller exhaustion, bull stepping into the market after a lower high that's a little bit easier to break because it's a little bit closer in terms of support resistance areas of interest overhead. And then we break that.

So there's two things. Either break above and close above 80 to 800 on a, on a weekly then a monthly needs to close above there in a monthly or else it needs to go substantially higher for me to get excited. Or it needs to put in another lower high and then it needs to put in a higher, lower, equal low. And that would significantly change things.

So I agree on this particular move up though, not interested unless I see where, until I see where the high comes in or if it breaks above 80 to eight, then the conversation will shift from 30, 70, 30% chance that the low is in right here or in 70% that we got another like down to a 50, 50 for me. Absolutely. It's based on those conditions and I'll be very loud about it.

I've been sticking to my guns since we went into a bear market. So, you know, I don't change. I'm not one of those guys and people, you know me, but there's, there's a lot of new people that do come in and watch a show, right? They don't know them. They might not necessarily know.

I'm not one of those guys that changes, you know, with the shifting wins on the timeline or whatever the green candle Wren candle is in terms of excitement. I got a history of videos that you can go back and watch. I, I will call it the way I see it and until I see the conditions change, that's when I will actually shift what my take is on things. And right now we just haven't seen those conditions change just yet,

but I do love a good pump up to the upside and look at hyper liquid. Absolutely. Well, I was going to get into hyper liquid and about the Trump administration CFTC talking about hyper liquid. And my first thought was Landy is going off. He is absolutely in his bathroom, just absolutely abusing himself.

And your thoughts, are you excited about this? Man, I got a handed to, I got a handed to somebody that, that I know is out there listening. And she brought this to my attention. No, I was paying attention to hyper liquid, but really, really brought it to my attention. And this is, this is amp, so shout out to him.

But she, she made me a convert for hyper liquid and watching then institutional players really build and come on board really solidified what they were doing over there. And you could tell with all of the larger institutional players that are, that have gotten involved in hyper liquid and are continuing to get involved in hyper liquid from the network side of things to funding the build out of different projects to the different proposals and the devs that have had just a,

a from the institutional side have come over and developed, but then supporting the other devs in the ecosystem has been something incredible to watch and price actions, reflecting all of that hard work that's been put in. And obviously, when you've got the president of the United States talking about it, you've got the CFTC talking about it, they understand that we, we can, we need decentralized platforms to be successful as well as the centralized platforms.

If you really want to become the number one crypto capital of the world, you can't just have a bunch of centralized platforms and a bunch of centralized products. You need the ethos underneath of it all, which is decentralization. And yes, I know that there's going to be arguments about who owns what in the network and staking and all of this other stuff. But the point is, is the platform operates in a decentralized manner.

And people will say, hold on, the Trump family's in on it. You know what? But you know, can I kind of say they are, are they? No, no, but even if you think they are, then fucking follow the money. Like, I'm so fucking tired of hearing people complain, oh my God, Trump, he just, he's making all the front run the money. It's the same thing that I was saying about the institutions and when they will come in

and follow their, follow what they're doing. Hey, I got a question for you, David, I got a question for you, David. This is, this is how I, I've been framing this and I want your opinion on this. I had somebody bring this argument up to me, oh, Trump is into crypto and the family's into crypto and mining and this and that and it's terrible and often I was like, okay. So let's say you have this brand new invention called the wheel, right?

And you've got, you say that you're going to support the wheel and, and you're going to bring manufacturing to the United States to manufacture wheels. And, and you are going to arrange an entire portion of your administration around interacting with people and manufacturers of wheels and developers of wheels and innovators in the wheel sector. But you're not going to have any skin in the game. And, and you're not going to have wheels, you're not going to drive with wheel,

you're not going to put wheels on a car, you're not going to put wheels on your wagon. You're going to, you're just going to be dragging stuff across the ground the entire time as the president of the United States or you're going to have, are you going to lead by example? And this is, this is something where a lot of people don't realize that a lot of, a lot of presidents throughout history actually ran their own businesses while being president.

You know who's not running their own business right now while being president? Trump. It's his family run of the business. And look, you can cry about insiders and this and that, but you know, go back throughout history. This is the same thing with anybody in a leadership position. You literally had presidents that were running their business while being the president of the United States. But I don't, I just don't care. Like, okay, look, would it be better if Trump,

like it all goes back to the Trump token. Yeah. I'll actually give you this. So you wanted a pro, this is how I look at it. Whether it's a Democrat or Republican, whether it's Trump or somebody else, you wanted, we all wanted a pro crypto administration, right? We wanted a pro crypto president. We've been asking for this. We've been begging for this, actually. Even though crypto itself doesn't need anybody, we've begged for an administration that is pro crypto, correct? After four years of being destroyed.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool. If it was a Democrat, no one in the media would say a word. But exactly. And look, I'm just saying whether it's a Democrat or Republican, somebody comes in here saying their pro crypto will put out regulation and rules and policies that benefit the American people builders. Great. So Trump can't really win here. If you really think about it, he can't win because he campaigned on a Bitcoin strategic reserve and all these things that are being done, digital reserve, that's being done. All these things have

are SEC pro. They're done. Pro. They're done. Done. Done. Done. Things are getting done, right? If he wants to go into crypto or his family wants to participate in crypto, that should be a good thing. And I'll explain why it should be a good thing. Because if you campaign on something and you say you're going, you like, okay, I didn't, I didn't understand the before. By the way, Michael Siller said the same thing and then changed this to everybody's allowed to say one thing at first, but then ask, they get educated to the asset, they can change their

mind. That's okay. That shouldn't be frowned upon. Like people, oh, they didn't believe it in at first. Yeah. A lot of people didn't. I didn't, when I was interested, I thought it was like, I thought somebody was pulling a fucking joke on me until I got educated on it. Most people want like the first reaction is get this away from me. And especially as the president at the time, he's defending the dollar. So I understood, but now if you voted in a pro administration, you should be happy that the administration is dabbling in crypto.

I wouldn't call it criminal. I would say they're participating in the markets, which if you call it decentralized and it's a free market, then everybody's free to do as they wish. He's even made the concession, which I don't really care for, but he's made the concession to the Democrats to pass this clarity act bill to say like no sitting president can go ahead and fuck around with crypto while in office. What more do you want from him? Like he's made the concessions. You could say, oh, his family is going to be,

yeah, they're not sitting. They're not sitting. Now you want him to go a step further and say no family member can participate? That's not fair. They're not sitting. Yeah, they can talk to their dad. I get it, but they're not sitting in the Oval Office 24 seven. Okay. They're not flying around meeting with, they're not doing none of that. Okay. There won't be people in this world that have an advantage over you. That's the world. Okay, that's the world that we live in. That's capitalism and that's fine. Work your way to that spot. That's it. Stop crying work.

Do you remember my brain? I'll even show you this entire fucking space. Y'all always crying about Oh, this one is making money because he's in this and that work your way up then work put in the work to be in the same position, but you're lazy. So all you can do is point fingers. So I don't have a problem with Trump participating in the markets because he's actually doing what he said he's going to do now being crypto president and have a pro crypto administration. And he's not directly

participating in the markets right now. Anyway, it's been his companies his in his son and his family and the wonder he whether he did or does or will it doesn't matter to me. You can look at it two ways one he can CNN would have reported and said you know what he campaigned on crypto but he doesn't even talk about or touch it. Yeah, they didn't for that. He he participates in crypto they get him for that. There is a no win situation you know what if I was Trump, I'd be like, you know what, I campaign on this

and I'm going to dabble on this. You know why? Because I can it's a free market. Well, that's how I'm looking at it. For you might remember a couple of weeks ago, I I went off and ranted about people complaining all over the timeline, including some very, you know, popular figures get involved. There's plenty of ways to get involved. You can go you there's groups that you can go and support that will get you out. If you have expertise in this field, they'll get you out to DC. You can go talk to representatives,

you can go talk to staff members, you might even be able to work your way into talking to members of the administration or some of the regulatory bodies. Now granted, you got to it's a lot of work and and it's not easy work and you got to deal with a lot of people with conflicting interests. But really anyone can do it. I ranted about this like stop complaining on the timeline and get out there. And whether your voice is heard or not, at least you knew you you know you did something to push things forward in the right direction.

And it doesn't you don't have to agree with me on direction, you don't have to agree with anybody that you're talking to on direction, but there are ways in which you can get involved. There's plenty of groups. I like the Bitcoin Policy Institute. Right? Me personally. There's others, right? I just happen to, you know, know some folks that are doing good work over there. Right? You've got, you've got the stuff that Perry and boring is doing. Right? Yeah. You know, there are ways. This is not the people think it's like this black box. It's like

all gated and you everybody has to know everybody. Now you can hit the ground. And if you make the if you make enough noise, you will get noticed. Right? And you know, people are willing to do it when it comes to political other like really divisive social political topics. And then they'll sit back and just whine and cry in the timeline when it comes to something important like the cryptocurrency topics and blockchain technology topics, instead of actually getting out there and doing anything. It's just a bunch of pissing and

moaning instead of actually doing things. And that doesn't that's not true of everybody. There's people that come and watch your show that are actually directly involved as well. And you don't even know their names. No one knows their names. They're just PFPs on the internet, but they're paying attention. They're listening to these conversations and others. And they're taking some of that feedback back to DC and talking to folks about it who actually have, you know, influence within the industry.

And then you know, I look at how hard Charles was driving forward with the narrative. And I get where Charles is at, too. But he went out and did it. But you don't have to be a Charles. You don't have to be a Brian Armstrong. You don't have to be one of the biggest players. Yes. Do they do their other voices going to be louder? Absolutely. Because they have the history of building that allows them a little bit easier opportunity to get in there and talk to folks.

For sure. But anyone can. Sorry about that. So good. Just wanted to say number one, it's a great shout out to hyper liquid shout out to the fans of hyper liquid. I know you were kind of like dabbling there to go ahead and give credit to somebody. But I know that Empress was out there. I can acknowledge that she was out there in the spaces talking about hyper liquid and nobody were I didn't say nobody was listening to her, but people were fading. So people were absolutely were. I remember those spaces.

I got into hyper liquid. But I remember when she was talking about it, people were fading hard. So but you but you know, people's mindsets were like, what's the next shitter coming off of whatever, you know, it wasn't like, Hey, let me get into something that that might have value here. Long term. So yeah, shout out to you for Hey, listen, man, we report the news, man. This is about reporting the news accurately. We'll have Charles on in in about 10 minutes or or it's 11 minutes. This article here, you know, I was I pointed out Ethereum, Ethereum is

finally moving. I stated in one of my tweets that Ethereum, if it does go past $5,000, it can thank Robin Hood and base for that, because I believe those are the two that will be the catalyst for Ethereum going up besides everything from an institutional perspective, believe those two of the behemoths that will carry that chain. Armstrong doubles down real quick before we have to say goodbye. And I don't want to say goodbye to the puppet, but before we have to say goodbye, Armstrong doubles down on $1 million Bitcoin call by 2030.

He believes wholeheartedly this thing is going to $1 million per coin. I think every Bitcoiner believes this. I'm sure you believe this. Sayla was on here, he said four to eight years, $1 million Bitcoin. So that's basically the I would push back on that me personally. Oh, now you go pushback. Well, you got a minute. No, no, I've never I've never called for a million dollar Bitcoin by X date. Some saying that you did, I'm saying. Well, I don't agree with Armstrong. I don't agree with the others that have said by 2030.

And when you when you expect Bitcoin, wait, so when do you expect Bitcoin to hit a million? It I don't have a date because I think that we need more whole long term holder distribution to see that actually come to fruition. And I don't know how long that's going to take. Me personally, I think that it's going to be a lot longer than people expect to get to a million because if we were going to get to a million dollar Bitcoin by 2030, David, that tells you that there's a lot wrong in the economic, the global economic system, a lot more wrong.

And something is substantially broken in the in the global economic system, which means that that million dollar Bitcoin, well, awesome in terms of numbers. And if you've been holding it for as long as many of us have been and accumulating for as long as we have been, we're sitting great. But the rest of society is probably on fire, literally and figuratively, you know what? You know what? I think this is it was a good, you know, I think last cycle, whatever that last cycle was, I think it was a good learning lesson.

I think it was a costly learning lesson. And I think if you sat and you actually looked at everything during the bear market, if you looked at everything that happened during that cycle, which I thought was the shittiest cycle of all time. 22. No, this current, whatever this fucking slop was, bro, you know what I'm talking about. Just a Bitcoin institutional run, seven Alts actually did something and it wasn't that much.

Yeah, you're talking about the bull run kind of being really muted. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like it was there was no old coin season. There was not it was just okay. Okay. But that was an expensive lesson for a lot of people. So if you were writing everything down, if you wrote everything down, then this time around, I expect you to be successful. As for Bitcoin hitting a million, I can care less. The one thing that you learned is that the,

which I now call Brian Armstrong, he's an institutional head now. So that's how I look at him respectfully. And I said that respectfully and not in a bad way. At some point that's what happens. Okay. So that doesn't make him a bad person. But at some point in your career, that's what you just, you sit at the table with all the institutional players and you continue to grow your company. That's what he's doing. God bless him. But I learned now, not that I didn't know, but I was like, I think I was caught in the days a

little bit and I can admit it, unlike you bitches, because I like having these open conversations and makes it real. Right. Yeah. There was like two, three, four months where, you know, I kind of believed and forgot who the fuck was talking. And that's institutions got a product to sell. Yeah. And when they say super cycle, shut up, Landy. When they say super cycle. And when they say all these things, you can get caught in the moment. Okay. And listen, I get a lot of things right and some things I don't. And then that's

fine. But that's the only thing that, you know what? The only thing that fucks with my mind out of that whole cycle is that I believed for like a month or two or three, I believed the product they were selling. Yeah. Because of the position and because I thought certain things were going to happen. Okay, it made sense. But at the end of the day, I forgot who I left. Do you get where I'm coming from? Yes. I forgot the world that I left. And then I'm looking at the world tell me. And it was, and you sit back and you're like, oh,

shit, that was one of the glaring mistakes I personally made in the previous cycle was that that forgetting that they all have a product to sell. So it is what it is. But look, not a bad cycle could have been better. But I am, I swear to God, this is, you know, when Jordan came back with the 45, he did well. But it wasn't like with the 23. Yeah, it's not when Nick Anderson took shit to him, where he went from the 45 to the 23 and destroyed the magic. That's what I'm looking to do this cycle. This is like, okay, I won. But now I want to really win.

Well, I want to fucking absolute dominate. This is in and honestly, you know, you and I went back and forth because if I was not an analyst, and I was not a trader, I probably would have been in the same or similar camp. But I was calling for a lot lower and I got a lot of slings and arrows thrown at me when I was calling for 123 to 125. No, you're dumb, you're stupid, you're a dumb puppet. Well, you know, I ended up getting it right. But you know who else got it right? The icon, the absolute legend out of New Jersey.

He called it along with me. He was there, the one, the only icon that hopefully we see more of in the future. And that's Rex Liberty. So Rex Liberty. I've been a for some reason, the staff is clipping up his stuff. It's crazy to watch. I mean, he is, you know, you're electric, but he is, he is the epitome of the electricity itself. Yeah, he's he's amazing. The hair. Yep. It's all, it's all fitting. Ladies and gentlemen, Landy Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. On this network, you can tune in and you can watch him

Mondays and Wednesdays. It's nine on Fridays. It's eight Eastern time. Yesterday, obviously, he did the market update. You can go ahead and check that out. If you're interested in, you know, participating in these markets and actually winning, check them out. Landy breaks everything down slowly for you. So you can understand, trust me, slowly for you so you can understand. Hey, it was a 16 minute video, man. But I covered everything yesterday. Bitcoin oil.

I covered all traditional markets. Who doesn't love baby oil? He covered baby oil. Like it's, it's amazing. Well, and I was covered in baby oil while giving that analysis. Yes. Yes. Shout out to everybody. Shout out to you. Appreciate you coming on. And obviously, I'll see you tomorrow. 1215 and then back at 145 where you go toe to toe with, well, not toe to toe, I want to say that, but we go ahead and bring Rob Nelson on here. Rob Nelson's show also aired yesterday at 8pm. I love debating Democrats.

So yes, absolutely. Don't say that. Don't say that. Don't still call him a Democrat. But much love, David. I appreciate you. You know, Landy's, you know, Landy's a fucking cheating as bitch right now, man, because he's going to go out there right now and go participate in other shows from other companies. I think they're going to be on the show on Friday, by the way. It's disgusting. Anyway, did I say that out? Oops, I thought I was muted.

Wait for the promo image, though, because I'm having very, I am telling you right now. Don't worry, Rex, Rex got people he knows. On that. And then, uh, yeah, whatever, fuck you. I can always get you to break just a little bit, but I love your brother. Take care of yourself. I love you too, man. Hey, Bitcoin bridge. How are we doing this, Charles? I need to know what's going on with midnight and

Bitcoin. I need to know. Also, hey, what do you want me to ask, Charles? So Charles and I have spoken here and on on your stages while a few times about Bitcoin, because he understands what Bitcoiners want, right? When it comes to quickly, we got commercial break. Come on. I want to know how either Cardano or midnight is going to interact with Bitcoin. We had that glacier drop. A lot of Bitcoiners got a lot of night tokens. So I want to know kind of what direction is it might be headed in with, you know,

Bitcoiners and the opportunities that might be available in the future for Bitcoiners when it comes to midnight as a network. And then also midnight city, my agent is just sitting in this pod. I want to go hang out with David. I will ask him these questions because I have a lot of people asking me the same thing. They're like, yo, we want to gang gang with you, bro, but we can't get in. So I will ask him. All right. Thanks, David. You're welcome, Landy. Landy, the puppet. Everybody, Landy the

puppet. He just submitted two questions to me to ask Charles. This is crazy. It's crazy. This is crazy. Anyway, we'll be back right after this commercial break sponsored, of course, by midnight. And get to sharing the value it creates. Or maybe it was a promise of a fundamentally better way of connecting, communicating and transacting the next phase of the Internet that empowers us instead of exploiting us. So why hasn't that happened yet? Why are we still living with the same broken system that blockchains promise to fix? It's because blockchains can't keep a secret. Enabling

open transparent systems was only the first half of the challenge for blockchains to really change the world. They also have to be able to protect our sensitive data when it matters. And that's where we build midnight to bring down the final barrier to mass adoption and unlock the full potential of the decentralized web. Let's build the Internet we deserve together. There we go. United States of America representatives. Social communism does not work. Digital assets. Is it better to move money at the speed of

light? People are greedy when they also try to acquire gold. And here providing electricity and that energy that is necessary. I'm the honor Dave Holmes to the show episode 773 title sponsored midnight. And we might have do we have I think we have somebody that might know a few things about midnight. So let's get inside of the head of this man. He's backstage. Let's bring him in. Charles my friend. Hey, hey, good to see you David. How you doing? How are you doing? You look I got to tell you I've called myself the most electrifying media

personality that there is within this space and outside of it. I saw you on stage and you are electrifying. You are really sharpening that you're always sharp but you are really on fire. Oh, we're having fun. You know, this is Jackson Hole and it's like the Bilderberg Group of Crypto. So all the big guys are here. Brad Garlinghouse was here. CZ was here hanging out with Senator Lummis and Senator Scott. And you know, talking clarity, talking the future of the markets, talking about all the things going, you know,

we got our pet back in our step. The bull market's coming. And we all feel it. We all taste it. It's there. It's in there. It's electrifying. And what's cool is I said, hey guys, you know, we need a new narrative. I saw it so many times before. I saw it in the old days of Bitcoin. We got stale and boring and then Ethereum came out. And then I saw it in the second wave with the Solana and Albran and Cardano. And we see it again. You know, the subtraction wave, the privacy wave, the agents wave, the web 2.5 wave.

Everybody's starting to get it. And they're starting to say, hey, we got some products to build. We got some things to build. We're excited about it. So it's coming soon. And, you know, everybody's laying their track. You know, they're getting ready for the trainings to come hit the frontier. You know, the other thing about it, too, is just there are a lot of, a lot of political power still inside this movement, you know, what's going to have a meaningful impact on the 2026 election and certain races that were just absolutely going to be lost are still in play

because crypto money's coming in. And it keeps things like the Clarity Act alive, which has been changed a lot. I've had many conversations to try to get it into a better shape. And hopefully, September 15th, they'll actually be able to get it over the line. It had a lot of problems at the beginning of the year, but they actually listened. They fixed it. There were over 300 pages of adjustments and modifications and other things. And I don't think anybody realizes how much work's gone into it. I was talking to Senator Scott. I said,

is there anything comparable? He said, you know, we worked on this three times longer than Obama worked on the CFPB. And that was in response to the 2008 financial crisis, this one bill. So it's just like the world's worst constipation. You got to get it out. It's rock hard. It's just, you've been trying, you're straining, you know, it's not going to be pleasant, but God, it's got it done. So hopefully, we can get this baby out next month. All right, well, let's stick on regulation. We'll go get into Cardano midnight. I got

questions from Bitcoiners. Bitcoiners have asked literally they are contacting me asking me to ask you about things that involve Bitcoin midnight. So let me just go with the Clarity Act because you mentioned that. And then we'll go into the CFTC SEC CFTC guidance and all that good stuff. And we'll leave our way there. Clarity Act, you said September 15. There's been a lot of talk about it potentially passing on that date. What are your being that you're out there right now? You're being surrounded by political, I would say politicians are surrounding you right now.

What would your percent rate be here on the Clarity Act passing on the 15? What chances do you give it? Well, I mean, there's procedural things they have to do to get closure closed and then get to the floor of the Senate for an up-down vote. So what Scott's trying to do is get the Republicans to vote as a monolith and every Republican center says yes. And then there's about 19 Democrats in the Senate who could be persuaded, given concessions, to jump the fence and come and vote for Clarity. We call it the genesis, the genius list because

those are the Democrats who voted for the Genius Act. So they're already saying, we need crypto regulation and get it done. So there are enormous conversations going on. The staff is requesting a lot of stuff. Ethics concessions being made. The White House meeting that was held yesterday, really a lot of that was about horse trading of what Trump is willing to give up to basically get it over the line. And what's the industry willing to give up? And what shiny pennies can we give to the

vampire legacy industry so that they go away? So there's a lot of that going on right now. And it's not dead. Let's say we're sitting probably about 46 in terms of the ability to pass. The cynical problem is the Democrats believe that they're going to be able to retake the Senate in the House or at the very least the House. What that means is that they're thinking in themselves, why vote now? If I wait six months, I can get a significantly better deal. So the question is, can enough concessions be made that the deal that they would get next year

would be somewhat similar to what they can get now. And they can take this issue off the table and de-radicalize the right. Because right now, an enormous amount of money, probably million, is coming from the crypto industry into the Republican elections. None of it for Democrats. Because they're taking the share of the brown list of the war on crypto equals Trump, equals bad, and everything about crypto is horrible. So it's hard when you're running for office and suddenly $20 million gets deposited in your opponents' accounts and then gets the

weapons. They use it against you solely because Elizabeth Warren, who you have no relationship with, has decided to basically brand you any crypto, the Democratic Party, about that. It's not good politics. So by passing clarity, for people who are on the left, it makes it easier for them to vote for the left because the crypto issue is no longer on the table. People vote for their wallet. So that's definitely a big part of it. Here in Wyoming, we just had a primary and it was brutal for Trump. Absolutely brutal. So we had the Freedom Caucus in Wyoming. They're

like the pro-Trump, MAGA people. Wyoming's all Republican, it's 73%. So it's not even a question if you're Republican. It's like, what flavor of Republican are you? How red are you? Freedom Caucus is like the red of the red. They're the most Republicans of Republicans here. And they've ruled the roosts because Trump got into office. They were very powerful and only got kicked out of office basically with this primary. I think a lot of that has to do with the Iran war and the distaste that the right has for it. The far right is very much against it.

And a lot of it also has to do with some of the things being broken, campaign promises that they perceive to be broken. So a repudiation here, local, is going to have an impact nationally. What that means is the people who are most likely to vote Republican aggressively may stay home in November. So a lot of Republicans are trying to reset and figure out how to create some distance between themselves and the policy of the White House and up to and including potentially some center of certain contact in the White House. So there's a lot of that. The FC and files also

have been in Wyoming. You know, Todd Blanch has literally buried them. Republican party said they weren't happy with that, but then they made a maternity general who just voted off. There's like a gap between what they're saying, what they're doing, and people are starting to get very angry. And that's kind of a palace coup that's forming. So those politics have been very toxic. The grass is not greener on the Democrat side. They got Abdul, Michigan, they got Mondani. Things are, things are not all so well in that house. They fed this

monster. And they didn't really fully understand what they were embracing and what they're getting. And it's tearing that party apart. So they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we just wanted the votes, man. We want these people to be in power and do stuff and be in charge of things, right? They're like, no, actually, we're going to be in charge of things. And we're going to go in Dearborn and hold protests that look like, look like, like marches in Afghanistan or Iraq. This is nuts. It's like, whoa, hang on. That's not really popular with the general electorate.

So the problem that people haven't come November is that while they hate the Republicans, they really hate the Democrats too. So it's like, do you want to be kicked in the face with the nuts? What would you like? Oh God, I don't know. This is bad. And crypto's just trying to navigate this. It's trying to be like, you know, how do we fucking deal with time dodge all this shit and just push it on through. And I think some of the senators right now, their feeling is just like, we put so much fucking time in this. We've had so many fucking conversations.

These crypto people are not going away. People go away after a while away. And we don't want to spend the next two fucking years having these conversations again, and the protests and the letters and these and that and the financing. I think there's the only thing that's going for clarity right now is the fatigue of just getting it passed and finally getting it done and you know, moving on and trying to fight another battle. We've told a lot of Democrats behind the scenes is look, you pass this, you get a lot of say because the joint commission between

the CFTC and the SEC where the rulemaking is going to happen, there will be Democrat representation there. And this is where you can sneak in your Essex and insider trading and other things you're concerned about. And so the rulemaking set. So this is the beginning at the end. And if you don't do this, they're calling the bluff the Democrats, the SEC and the CFTC can do rulemaking, which is you just mentioned, they recently did. And the problem is those are sticky. Even if the regime changes, you can't be like,

well, we got all these things. We said it's this way, but we're going to do a 180. And then now we're going to sue people. You're going to go to court and say that's a promissory is still full. I mean, this is unconscionable for the SEC to say, this is the way it is. We've made the rules and then reverse all of them, destroy our businesses in the United States. That's just not something you can do as a regulator. It's radically inappropriate. So I do believe that it's going to be very difficult

for them to remove wholesale all the regulations of a Democrat. It's elected in 2028 for the White House. But they will, they will do through low rolling. So they'll say, oh, you need to get a license. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll look into it. Yeah. It's like a teester in New York, you know, like, yeah, yeah, we'll get around to it. Yeah. Well, don't worry about it. We'll get, yeah, come by. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, you'll have. All right. So Clarity Act, maybe a good chance for it to pass. Okay. It's a starting

point. It's something for the banks. It really to me, it's for the banks. And yes, there's trillions of dollars waiting to get into crypto based on the Clarity Act. So I guess so, whatever. See, SEC, the most pro crypto SEC that we've ever had has come out with guidelines. And I looked at them, I read them, I think they're awesome. From a standpoint, I think they're good. Let me not say awesome. I think they're really, really good. What were your thoughts on that when the SEC came out with their own guidelines? They're like, you know, whatever they're

doing in Congress, we can care less. We're coming out with guidelines so you guys can understand what we're looking for. What's the security? What's not a security? What's a commodity? What's a currency? Your thoughts on that, Charles? Well, you know, I've known Paul Atkins for a while. He even spoke at one of the Cardano events and we have friends of friends and I've talked to him in person. He's the right man for the job. You know, he doesn't hate cryptocurrencies. You know, he thinks that

these are an instrument that are vital for the nation's growth and it helps globalize American power. So it really helps that when the chair of the commission is favorable to the asset and thinks that it's part of the story of America's innovation, when you have a conversation about rulemaking, the SEC can only do so much without an act of Congress and what they release is basically as much as they can do without an act of Congress. So what does it mean? It means you're not going to have institutionalized scary Gary. By the way, scary Gary will be a character

in Midnight City. We're still trying to figure that one out. It's the most impactful way to put it in there without getting sued by Stephen King for it. But you know, you're not going to have like, let's just sue every exchange and let's sue every layer one and go after everybody. And there's some acceptance that ICOs are a thing and so they created some ability with the five and 75 million dollar exemption. And what they did is they based it on the Jobs Act with series A where you have some concept of democratizing the investment and they

just follow the bouncy ball to extend that, which is what Hester Pierce has talked about for a long time, especially with a Julie. So I think the regulations are very sensible. The challenge is that they're not permanent. They can be reversed to a certain extent, but the longer they stay in play, the stickier they become. Really. So it's a good starting point, but you don't get that surety uncertainty that a law would basically give you. The challenge with genius is, to me, clarity is it's just too big. There's too many things

in it. And when you have a bill that's too big, it's like a movie that's too long. You can always find a scene you hate and make the whole movie about that scene. Kind of like the Odyssey, right? You know, everybody freaked the fuck out, Aurelia Page being in for like two minutes. Oh my God. Yeah, that's your jive. I guess it's the world's worst movie. On the other hand, if you like practical effects, it's a masterpiece, right? So you can always find something to hate the movie for and you can always find something to like the movie for. So clarity is much like

that. And so that's creating some delays in the momentum. So the CFTC and the SEC, they just have to move forward and do what they can do and institutionalize things. The most important thing for us as an industry is to get those things anchored into BlackRock and anchored into Morgan Chase and these other institutions because they own the Democrat party. And so if the Democrats get back in power, they're not going to go and say, well, fuck you. We're going to change everything because then BlackRock's going to call them and say, no, no, no, no,

we're not going to do that. It's kind of like when the board tried to fire Sam Altman at OpenAI and then Papasacha from Microsoft called them and he's like, I was not informed about this. What is going on? You're going to put him back as the CEO now because they own a 50% of the company, right? Papasacha is very powerful. So you have to go talk to him. So BlackRock is very powerful in Democrat politics, massively powerful as is others in the cartel, getting them to normalize and build products and make money with these newfound SEC regulations is probably

going to make them as sticky as clarity would. What do you expect from the CFTC? You expect the same language that the SEC use because I'm watching yesterday's press conference. Mike pulled their in love with each other. You can see there's an actual relationship there, unlike what we had. What was it six years ago? Just nobody's on the same page. They look like they're absolutely on the same page. And the announcement came about hyper liquid where they're embracing it and bringing it out here. What are your thoughts? Do you think they come out

with similar guidelines? No. So you got to understand something. First off, I was just talking to some CFTC people, former and current. And the challenge the CFTC has is the SEC has got like 10,000 plus people. It's a huge organization. The CFTC it's like 700. They've cut it. There's like now 500 after attrition. So they're 20 times smaller than the SEC. They're very small organization. They're a principles based regulator. So what principles based regulation means is like if it gets too

hot, we do something. If it gets too cold, we do something. But if it's, you know, the right temperature, we do nothing. We just stay out of it. Commodities. It's very different going from that culture, that scale, that size and going into enforcement agency and actually regulating an asset as complex and risky as crypto can be. So the CFTC needs a budget increase to be effective in this particular role, which they haven't gotten. They don't have the personnel. They don't have the culture and they don't have the scale to be able to do this.

So what will end up happening is that the CFTC will have authority. But then what's probably going to end up happening is it's going to get kicked back in many cases to the SEC and they're going to rely upon them to actually assist in enforcement. So you'll see a lot more joint CFTC SEC enforcement actions and they'll have a little bit of peanut butter with their jelly, you know, even though it's mostly jelly. So I think that's probably what's going to occur. It's the wrong agency for some of the things. They just like it because it's principles

based and more hands off in certain things. Now what people understand though is when the CFTC gets involved, it's usually the hammer of God. It's like the SEC gets involved. It's like Elon Musk doing the 420 thing, right? They give him a fine as a, you know, don't do it again tomorrow. They're like, you're going to jail, bitch. You know, it's not good. So, you know, yes, they're nicer in certain respects, but also when bad things happen, they're worse for you. So be careful what you wish for. And they're not necessarily the perfect regulator either

for a variety of reasons. So, yeah, the cooperation is unprecedented. Normally, there are somewhat adversarial naturally because of the feature of things, but I think it's a temporary jubilee. And the SEC is the pop of error. They're bigger and they just have more money and more prominent. So this was one of my biggest issues with clarity. I said, guys, you're doing the wrong thing. The follow-up from genius should have been focused on the Securities Exchange Act of 1933 amended and added definition of a digital security and bring all of the digital security

people in. Token eyes and all these other guys in who are doing digital securities at RWAs and then go talk to the NYSE and all these other guys and get to a framework that everybody can live with in terms of disclosure, custody, broker, dealer, enhancements, oversight, how it works with NRUN, Series 7, and so forth, all this stuff. Once you have that off the table, you'll have liquidity and low cost to be a security. The compliance burden will go down orders of magnitude. So do you really care if you start as a securities? It really is bad

and not really, you know, for most projects. Then you sidestep this issue of everything must go to the CFTC because SEC is so bad because regulation old. And then you can really ask the question, where does principal space regulation actually make sense? And what you have to do is the CFTC has to care less about the SEC and more about MECA and the JFSA and the GM, like the global regulation. They have to care about that because these things trade on global markets with many customers all around. And then you're really talking more about a normalization

tree where you're trying to figure out how to create universal standards so that you don't have to really care where the customers happen to be. And you can have a chance for enormous innovation. And you can keep that small size of the CFTC. But Washington did what it always did. It went full retard and it said, let's just make the CFTC bigger and scarier. And then magically, that'll just solve all of our problems. And then five years down the road, it won't, and then we'll have to go back to it and fix it. Okay. It's just what Washington does.

Oh my God. All right. Before we get into Cardano and midnight and also questions from Bitcoiners who have said, well, Charles comes on. I like you to go ahead and ask them a few things for Bitcoin and how it aligns with midnight and could work with Cardano. You obviously have witnessed, and I'm really upset about this, cold card wallets exploited. And you've had Trezor with third party, you know, third party vendors leaking data. Save Pal had an incident. It's really unfortunate, especially that we're we're approaching 2027, Charles.

You would think that I don't give a fuck what kind of shit I get for this. But at some point you dedicate 15, 20, 30% to security to simulate. Do we have any vulnerabilities here within our products? Because we've told people, this is how you have to do things, and they've done them correctly. And then they wake up one morning, and their wallets are drained. And they're told, well, amen, you know what, it happens. And you just keep grinding. Right. Nobody with money. After these kind of responses, what I've seen on social media,

nobody is going to, at least from my personal opinion, who has money, would want to come through, come get Bitcoin, Cardano, whatever it is, whatever asset, come here to get it. Because I'd rather call up Merrill Lynch or Morgan Stanley Blackrock and say, hey, buy me this amount of XYZ, because I know at least if something happens, I could scream at somebody and it's insured. So yeah, why am I going this way with a lack of attention to security respectfully? It's already 2027, almost 2027. We shouldn't be having these problems. We shouldn't have

midnight, for instance, right? Nothing wrong with midnight network has to do with bridging, which is something that should be solved already. We shouldn't have these things happening. To me, why isn't more money being poured into security? And have some of these companies taking a cavalier approach and sat back and said, oh, we're good. We're good and we don't need to look into these things. What are your thoughts here? Well, it's a deep topic and there's not a crypto topic. This is a long historical topic. The Nazis were really smart. That's what they were

so dangerous. And so what did they do with those big brains? They invented things like the enigma machine and they thought that they had super secure communication. And be noticed to them, the UK was smarter and they had this thing called the bomb that they created. It was the first computer at Bletchley Park and they were secretly decrypting the enigma machine and they were able to read all the communications. Okay, so what does that mean? It means when you have a cryptographic algorithm, it survives until an adversarial capability has a step change and then

when you have that, then that capability breaks everything and then you have to go and fix stuff. So what was the response to the enigma and the bomb to use computers to do cryptography? And then suddenly we had significantly more secure communication. So you have AI that comes out of Daybreak and Fable and all this other stuff. And these are incredible capabilities. And actually, when 3.827b obliterated, it's like the best fucking hacking machine of all time. You just throw it on until it breaks something. So that means adversaries have gained

a new capability and they're using it to break the wallets and the bridges and other things. And it turns out that the vast majority of software has some latent problem with it. So what will happen in the midterm is that the people building software will use these capabilities to build significantly more secure software as part of the development workflow. And so just like computers doing cryptography, you end up getting much better crypto, well, you get much better security with these capabilities. In the short term, it's Armageddon.

You lose the war, right? They can steal everything that's not bolted down and people that even don't get it are getting hit for the first time ever. So that's one dimension of it. The second dimension of it is that you don't build a fireproof home and then magically in your mind think there's never a possibility in any sense the word that will ever burn down. What you do is you say, okay, it's fire resistant, but I'm still going to buy fire insurance for that home. Right? Okay, so you need wallets insurance and you need bridge insurance. And we need to

figure out a structure to do that. So I was just in Bermuda. I spent time with the BMA and Pembros and other insurance companies. We had real serious conversations about what would a world look like for insurance products where you as a wallet holder can pay a monthly fee as a premium. And if these things happen, you get a policy, get your money back. So even if the software gets broken, you still have some sort of lender of last resort that basically reimburse you. That's the adulting of the industry. Now it's good for the industry. Why? Because insurance means pool,

lateral and return. So those are RWAs, big TVL and big ROI. And it's more stuff to bring into the cryptocurrency space. And fast moving jurisdictions like Bermuda can create regulatory frameworks to make these things happen. Why we haven't done it is you need identity. So you need something like midnight to facilitate that. Because it's like, how do you prove that's God, Christine's wallet? Well, in the old crypto way, you'd have to put your identity into that wallet publicly for everybody in the entire world. You don't want to do that. But what you

want is to be able to link it to like a midnight passport or something. Nobody knows it's linked, but then if it gets hacked, you can prove you actually owned it in a profitable way and you need your policy for that. So that's some emerging technology that we're really excited to bring in. We think there's going to be a lot of great capital pool products that solve that. And that helps chip away at the issue. The other thing too is you really have to add is self-custody the best solution in all cases. Or maybe it makes sense that you have custody

by proxy and you're able to control the rules about what they can and can't do with that. Right now we live in this binary. Either you have it or you don't have it. Okay. And that's not good because if you have it, it's whatever, man. If you lose it, you lose it. You lose your life savings. If you don't have it, they have total control over everything and they can just tell you it's like Bane and fucking the dark night rise. It's you for you. You know, you do you, right? And you're really worn in the dark.

Yeah. You're really adopted to dark. I wanted it. Yeah, there you go. There you go. So what if you had a third option where you can let somebody hold on to it, but they don't they don't have God mode. You can recall it. You can do all kinds of things. And this is what we're learning with the OWS standard and agentic trading and these types of things where agents have wallets. The agent can be the custodian in a trusted execution environment using more sophisticated cryptography like multi-party computation, for example.

And if you have that, then suddenly you, you control the rules you're delegating. You have access to it. People can't freeze it, but you don't have the keys per se. You have something else to facilitate that. And it's a very powerful play because those policies prevent wholesale theft and they broaden your security model in that respect. So there's no one size fits all or magic bullet to solve all of it, but you just have to recognize this is a recurring pattern of build something new capability comes,

break your ship, use the new capability to build a better thing. And then quantum computers are going to do the exact same thing after AI to Bitcoin, right? It's just going to hammer all of us. So it's an endless loop. It's never going to stop. That's okay. Plan for it. Build for it. Then build risk reduction products. By the way, the existence of insurance forces the software to get better because I'm not going to ensure your wallet if you're bad at building wallets. Okay. I'm

only going to ensure all the standard. So that alone massively improves the quality of all these things and really enhances and creates a halo. And then being able to have that third option between custody and non-custody, we have delegated custody and you put the rules on it, then the vast majority of people will pick that option. It's effectively what they're doing with exchanges. They're like, look, as bad as it is, leaving on Binance, Binance is probably not going to go out of business and, you know, they're probably not going to get hacked. They're less likely

to get hacked over me. So I'm just going to leave it on. We tell consumers not to do it for 15 years. I said, don't do that. But like 80% of the supplies, some cryptocurrencies are sitting on Binance. They're the custodian basically. People just leave it there. And it just because it's easy, right? It's two factor authentication. It's a KYC to count. Something happens, they have a claim against Binance. Whereas if they have self custody, if something happens, they just lose all their money. So innovate with products to get out of it. Does that

make sense? It makes total sense. I wanted to, I wanted to, I saw this before you reacted to it. And this leading into Cardano, obviously, I saw this before you reacted to it. And I was like, I mean, are they ever going to give Charles any sort of credit here? Let me go ahead and pull out like the UTXL, right? This, right? I've seen this. And there was another post that you did. But I've seen this one and I'm like, are they ever just ever going to acknowledge, like ever going to acknowledge that, you know, you've already done this. So

it's just, it's just funny to see. It really is funny to see the hypocrisy in this space. Respectfully. What are your real thoughts besides, besides the office meme? What are your real thoughts on that? It's sad because if I was an ether holder, I'd be pissed because of a personal vendetta of a small group of people, they are slowing down and disadvantaging the entire Ethereum ecosystem. They think magically they're just going to go to Bitcoin, copy paste the Bitcoin UTXO model, put smart contracts on it. I've got a newsflash for you.

You can't do that. I know this personally, because I spent 11 years of my life figuring out how to do this, writing papers, building code, doing all the stuff. So Cardano has a beautiful blueprint for the design patterns, the security model, and how to do an extension of UTXO for smart contracts that are comparable to Ethereum. Bitcoin does not. They've never solved that problem. They have some subsets like simplicity on a side chain that Adam back figured out, but by no means does it have the capabilities and expressiveness that

Ethereum has, whereas we do. So if they ignore Cardano and say it just doesn't exist, they have to start from scratch and magically reconstruct every single thing we've come up with and done, even if you're a genius and a rock star with super duper AI man, take you a few years because it took us 11 with all these programming language experts. So yeah, as an investor in Ether, ask a very fundamental question. Why can't we just take this open source thing from Cardano and collaborate with the Cardano people and work together and in six months have a capability?

Why? Because of a personal vendetta of a small group of people in the roadmap group. Do we ignore all of this and then labor ourselves with three or four years of roadmap to get this capability in? Ego. It's just, I would be pissed if I was an Ether holder or an Ether investor that they're letting a personal distaste for a single person get in the way of an entire ecosystem's growth and progress. That's the face palm. It's not, I want credit. They're never going to give me credit. It's okay. I'm the persona non grata.

There's one word. It's like the Voldemort. You can't mention he should not be named. You can't see the C word. Fine. But for the good of your ecosystem, have enough humility to admit that maybe, just maybe, that in 11 years with 168 scientists and 300 papers, we figured out how to do something with smart contracts that's novel and interesting on the TXO side that could be useful for you guys, which by the way benefits us because if they adopt it, there's developer interoperability and it's easier for Ethereum developers to work with us in midnight and

other products. It's not like we would just be like, no, we don't want to work with you. We'd be like, actually, that's great for both ecosystems. This is a natural, easy, academic and engineering collaboration, which requires no transfer of money, no apologies, just an acknowledgement and just in a desire to work together. And that's so cool. You're willing, but that's what you're showing that you're showing that type of leadership is saying, let's, regardless of what's happened, let's work together. We have

it. You don't have to, we have this here. I'm willing to work with you guys. We have a bunch of other people, scientists willing to work together. It's the benefit of the ecosystem. Forget about just one particular holder group. It's the benefit, it benefits the entire ecosystem. So that in itself, I love hearing that from your side, like, hey, like, fucking let's go. Let's work together. There's nothing wrong with it. As a midnight NATO holder makes me happy though, you know, you go back to my bags

when your competition makes mistakes like this and they're self-inflicted. Holy shit, that's like Christmas came early. It's just, you just feel all the warm and fuzzy inside. You say, God damn, I love it. That's like somebody saying, you know what, I just hate that guy's car. So I'm going to walk instead. Okay. I know you really hate that guy's car, but you kind of have to like walk across the desert. That's a long walk. Oh, fuck that guy. I'm going to walk. All right then. I'm just going to drive this air conditioned car across the Nevada desert.

Best of luck walking without water in the desert. Have fun on that asphalt road. See if you enjoy it. They literally signed up for that. And what's so sad, David, is it wasn't taken to a vote by the Ethereum ecosystem. There was no on-chain governance action like, should we ignore Cardano and fuck Cardano and Charles Austin since beer evil. One person, Vitalik Buter and his personal ego and childishness made this decision on behalf of the entire ecosystem to the detriment of every single

back holder of ether. And they'll go along with it because he's God and he's got the tastiest cock in the world. Great. But you know, it hurts them as Ethereum back holders. It hurts them and it helps me. So their hatred of me helps me. That's awesome. It's a self-inflicted mistake. It gives me something to work with. And as long as they make these self-inflicted mistakes, Cardano is still in the game with respect to being an Ethereum killer. Sad that in 2026, we're still doing this because we can all share in wealth in the pie. We can

all get along and all work together. There's no need for it. It's a very childish, some zero mentality. But if that's what they want to do, that's what they want to do. And when we get back into the top 10 and then the top five and beyond, these are the kinds of things people are going to remember when they do their post-border books and they'll write books about it. Not crazy and sane Lara Shen books that are works of fiction that are going to write business books about the Ethereum mistake, the Ethereum tragedy, the hubris of Ethereum.

Just like they wrote books about the failure of Yahu and Blackberry and all these other things that used to have these powerful monopolies and interpersonal relationships and ego and other things to destroy them. It really is sad. It is sad and I hope they take the option of working together versus being stuck in this echo chamber that they're currently in. Which though, here's the positive moving forward. I've had discussions with Bitcoiners. I've talked to Bitcoiners, even Maxis, and they're like, okay, Dave,

you're so bullish on Cardano. You're so bullish on Midnight. Tell me how Bitcoin can go ahead and integrate themselves with Cardano, with Midnight. How can we work together? So there's the light. The light's gone off Charles. Bitcoiners do. Bitcoin is not the crazy Maxis. I'm talking about real Bitcoiners do want to find a way of understanding how Bitcoin can integrate itself with Cardano and Midnight. So let me show you some pictures worth a thousand words I'm sharing my screen. This comes from Torben. Torben is just as goddamn genius. You ever see the teenage

mutant Ninja Turtles? You had Kang, the fucking brain that just had like the body suit. This is Torben. He's super smart guy. Torben is the lead engineer on Bitcoin DeFi for us and he works with the BitVM guys. So when we started, this is where we were at. A proof on Bitcoin was 40 gigabytes in size. This is what Torben was able to do with the team. A proof is now 0.0281 gigabytes. Tiny proof. Used to take 354 seconds to validate a Bitcoin DeFi proof. Now 0.14 nine seconds. Used to cost $14,000 to validate that transaction. Now it costs $37. This is one year

of working on open source infrastructure for everybody everywhere on 28 megabytes versus 40 gigabytes. That's a fact. Those are real numbers. Those are verifiable. Everybody can see them. They can test them. This is open source software. That is the brain of Bitcoin. These zero knowledge proofs can have arbitrary smart contracts inside of them. So that is the cost of programmability for Bitcoin. A 1000X improvement from technology running on Bitcoin. So I was just with some Bitcoin guys and we're talking about Bitcoin DeFi

because we're getting commitments now. I think we have about a half billion in soft commitments and we're working our way through. It's going to get into the 10 figures here soon. And I said, look, I want Bitcoin to be Bitcoin. Everybody in the world wants to change Bitcoin. I did. Everybody did. They just roll around. I want Bitcoin to be Bitcoin. Okay. And so build a DeFi layer and Bitcoin shouldn't have to care who the winners and losers are. Some days it's XRP. Some days it's Binance. Some days it's Cardano. Some days it's a

Solana. It's not Bitcoin's problem. Bitcoin's been here since the beginning. The top 10 in the coin market cap has gone all crazy. It used to be pure coin and name coin and light coin. Okay. A new shed, right? It's not a point to problem. Make it programmable. Make it cheap and have the security be Bitcoin. Then project the Bitcoin into whoever the flavor of the week is and let Bitcoiners get a return the way they want it, how they want it. It's just that simple. So we focused on fundamentals. We said the security model

has to be Bitcoin. It has to be mirroring. It's not a wrapped asset but mirroring, which means it's you're not creating a new asset. It's non-custodial. You control it. It's not a bridge. What does that mean? No taxes on that. Okay. It's your asset. Has to be lendable into a stable coin because you're not going to go sell your Bitcoin. What do you want to do? You want to get value out of it while holding it? So you have to lend it to a stable coin. Then once you lend it to a stable coin, what are you going to do with it? You're going to

place it in DeFi. If it's multi-chain signatures, which is what we have with midnight, what does that mean? You can place it in hyperliquid, Binance Smart Chain, Solana, Cardano, Ethereum. It doesn't matter where you make a yield. You decide what that comes back to you as Bitcoin, stable coin, and what network it comes back to you as. Go to Goxstein's couch cushions. It can go to your Binance. It can go back to Bitcoin, right? It's your call. And with midnight, it's like a VPN for financial privacy. You click the button. It's private. Nobody even knows you're doing it.

It's on you. It's your thing. That's the Bitcoin ethos. So we're so proud of the fact that in just a year's time, we went from 40 gigabytes to 28 megabytes, 354 seconds to .149 seconds, $1437. We have a roadmap to make it even better. The technology keeps getting more expressive and faster and so forth. So that's what we brought to the table. When Bitcoiners saw this, they said, holy shit, these guys really know what they're doing. It's like, how do we know? It's secure. It's like, guys, come on. We know what we're doing. We're secure. That's the problem

all, right? We've got this. It's good. We've got to come on. Don't worry about it. I'm Italian. I know what I'm doing. We're making it with luck. I was just with Scaramucci, actually. Anthony Scaramucci runs the Sol conference and we were just going full Italian mode. It's like, hey, you know, you've been to New York. I used to live in New York. He's like, oh, yeah, I only get you good Italian food. I've had good Hainana. You don't know the Italian food that I know in New York. I'm the mooch. You're going to love it.

Pesci is going to be there. It's going to be great. You're going to love it. See, he's still alive. He'll be alive for you. Scaramucci is good. He's been on the program multiple times. Good guy. Really good guy. He's an AJ's rock star. He's a very cool kid. He's got one of the craziest things. He's doing this IPO where he's going to have a company where he's going to wrap a treasure hunt. He's going to go buy all these exotic assets like Neil Armstrong's fucking spacesuit on the moon. He's going to securitize that we can make a revenue

and appreciate some value. This is what meme coins wanted to be when they grew up, man. That's great. But AJ is always saying he's a super smart kid. But my point is that we put the Italian mode into Bitcoin DeFi. It's got to love. It's amazing. It's everything. And it loves you for who you are Bitcoin. It doesn't want you to be anything else. We're not billing a letter to or any of this other stuff. It's Bitcoin at the end of the day and you have Bitcoin security. So this is so exciting. And the fact we've gotten so many commitments so quickly,

I'm very excited that we flip the switch. It's going to go wildfire and it'll start with institutional because they have huge piles of Bitcoin. And then the retail side will come very quickly through B2B2C. And so we can syndicate it. And my goal is just click the button. Like blockchain.com or all these things. They have a little toggle. You just click the button. You start making a yield on your Bitcoin. We learn this for an auto. We only have like 50K participating in DeFi with 1.3 million people participating in staking.

So everybody likes just clicking the button. Make money button. You click it. It makes money out of this. Life is good, right? Oh, God, I got to do my shit. I don't know about that. Sounds risky and weird. So I want to get the retail B2B2C experience. Just click the button. Then I think you'll see like 50 or $100 billion worth of Bitcoin flow on through. And by the way, if you make yield by lending the stablecoin, that means all that Bitcoin becomes stablecoin. And then you got like $50 billion of stablecoin floating around too. If Cardano is hosting all

of that, we're like right behind Ethereum on TVL. That could happen in 12 months. Yes, you don't bet against me, man. We're going to win this fucking fight. I'm so tired of this bull. I can't share it on. I'm going to win. I have not bet against Cardano. I have been, you know what it is out there in crypto Twitter when you mention the word Cardano, you get like 90,000 haters coming at you. Oh, what's your talk? And then you get into a debate with them and you're like, okay, explain Cardano to me. Go ahead. If we're going to have a

debate here right now, explain it to me. Just give me a simple, give me some cliff notes. I don't know. I hate it because it's trending. Then I have nothing to talk to you about. I'm not wasting my energy. Learn about it. Come back to the table. Then we can have a conversation. A Bitcoiner is asking you now, is there a product or a platform available yet or on the roadmap that you speak of for Bitcoin? Yeah. So on the retail side, it'll be B2B2C and the Pogon will be an underlying protocol and then it'll just work its way into places where

you already have your Bitcoin and then you have the toggle. You click it and then it's like got a basic mode, advanced mode. On the institutional side, the product is rapidly coming online. I think around probably December, we should see the first cohort and then throughout the first half of next year, like huge amount of TVL starts moving over. So what we're doing right now is we're getting technical and business requirements for integration because the first step was make Bitcoin programmable and make it cheap. I can't have a $15,000 transaction.

I'm not going to buy a fucking car every goddamn time I want to do a transaction. So we had make it $30, right? It's the cost of the steak at Denny's. So we go do that. Now we're good. We went from the Toyota Prius to the steak and I think I'd go from the steak to the coffee. You know, that's the coffee test. So that's what we're doing. So now that that's done, now we're doing the next level up in the integration and people forgot I've been in space forever. It's like, I was one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the world

for a bit. When we did the Cardano crowd sale, we converted the yen into Bitcoin. We had 108,000 Bitcoin. And it was funny, I was with Mike Belchee, you know, Mike is the CEO of Biggo, and they were a custodian back in the day. And I was like, Mike, remember when we did that? He's like, holy shit. Yeah, that was a lot of Bitcoin. It was a lot of times. He's like, yeah, it wasn't worth that much back then. It was like 250 bucks. So we know all the Bitcoin guys, right? We call them and we say, Hey, you want to get some yield on that?

And they say, Oh yeah, what do we got? We'll find some couch cushion money and throw that. So it's not going to be hard to get the numbers high if the product is good. What really mattered to them was don't change Bitcoin. Don't do some fruity, weird ass, fucking layer two thing. And you know, who the hell knows. I got to have custody. You know, I got to be in control. We got to do lending the right way. And we have to have the ability to project this and not pick winners and losers. We don't

want to get locked in to chain A, B or C or D because Bitcoin is eternal and all you shit coiners, you know, you play musical chairs with using the content, right? So it's going to be real. It's like, it's got to be a Bitcoin centric view. And I don't want to, I, it's like, it's like having a fairer, the fat woman. It's a lot of fun, but you don't want to tell your friends, you know, we don't want to tell our friends, we're doing altcoin stuff, right? You know, we're just doing some over there.

So you got to keep it behind closed doors. So that's what they tell me. I say, you know what? I will be your girl. It's okay. I let me earn your business. We'll figure this out. And it's been just great. And these have been fun conversations. It's like being young again. I've lost a little bit of weight. You know, we're really traveling really, we're really getting it done. And, you know, it's a small team and they're very agile. And the fact that they've been able to do that much in such a short period of time,

provable, like these transactions were not on some test that they were on Bitcoin mainnet. We paid that $15,000 transaction fee. We paid that $37 transaction fee to verify these types of things. We've learned a lot in the process of doing this stuff. So I'm very excited that we have that, you know, and it's a, it's a big competitive differentiator. Why Cardano? You know, it's funny because we talk about all the old Bitcoin technology, like color coins and some of the attempts to add programmability

to Bitcoin. And they're like, we, Cardano has all that. Yeah. Our native asset standard is launching color coins. They're like, oh, yeah, that's cool. That's, I'm glad somebody figured that out. Yeah. It's the same for lightning and Hydra. Lightning Hydra is what lightning wished it was when it grew up. You know, it's like the little kid who wants to be the superhero. So he wears like the uniform and he's having fun. He's Spider-Man and he's like, oh my God, it's really Spider-Man. Look at that. That's so cool.

That's what Hydra is. It's Spider-Man. Okay. Lightning is the kid that dresses up as Spider-Man and watches him on TV. So when Bitcoiners see this, they get envious. They're like, man, I wish Bitcoin had all those capabilities. That's awesome. But because of that successor, it makes it ridiculously easy to do Bitcoin DeFi on Cardano. And you'll know this because Vitalik will claim he invented it three years from now when he has his crazy shit UTXL. And he'll have Timo Bitcoin DeFi.

Charles, never lose the spirit. I love, you know, I love it. I appreciate it. All right. I got three quick, because I know you're, listen, I know I can't take up all your time, but I have three questions. One of them, I know you're going to probably give a good long answer on and two are pretty simple. I think you, I was watching you live at Sol and you said we are, you know, in crypto, we're building a product for a product for a product, I think I'm paraphrasing

here. And that caught my attention. Like when you said that, listen, you've said, you said a bunch of good stuff there. And I noted it down. I just, we're not here for four hours. But that caught me there. What do you think, how do we change that? Because I agree with it. It's a product for a product on top of a product. It's like, I got, I got you when you said that. It's so crazy. It's like every fucking pitch I get, they're like, I'm all this. So you're like,

a less popular, less valuable, more risky version of Ave. Yeah, well, we'll win one day. I'm doing all this. So you're less popular, more risky, less liquidity version of Uniswap. You know, there's 12 categories in DeFi. In the top five, there's like a massive winners take all distribution. And these are commoditized protocols at the end of the day. And I don't care if you're slightly faster, better. It's just, it's boring. It's so boring. You need a new narrative. We need to do something different.

And I said, well, how about we have a new world where you interface through cryptocurrencies using agents. And then the agents deal with all the super hardcore fucking crazy shit, and they fully understand your intention. And then the agents can do all kinds of crazy things. Like I just met with CEO coin tracker and we're going to work something out here in a bit. But I'm like, Hey, if the agents do a lot of trading, they're probably gonna have a lot of tax stuff. You have to deal with it, right? Well, what if you have just like a little toggle

you click it and automatically does all that? Oh, yeah, that's actually a pretty good idea. Okay, let's do it. Let's just get it done. So you need a new narrative and midnight city kind of brings that to bear. I just had a midnight city meaning some of the shit we're working on man is so incredible and so advanced. And we keep just pushing the boundaries of the possible. And you only see the very minimal tip of the iceberg and we're kind of holding things back a little bit, because the cost will go up so radically. If we just turn it on, we'll

get a million people will burn like $4 million a month on hosting fees like open AI does, right? So we're like, hang on a second, let's hold it back a little bit. And we keep making it more efficient these miles, just like the Bitcoin DeFi side. So we're real excited about that future. And this solves the biggest problems in crypto, the safety problem, the simplicity problem, right? The universality problem. I don't have to fucking care where it's at. It should just be like David at Gochstein. And that's it. You send money to that. It's just settle. Okay, you don't

care about the chain or care about that stuff. So we've been pushing very aggressively with that. And it's been fun. And we actually are even evolving. It's like when we did the OWS integration, it doesn't have any web support. You can do cell phone apps and desktop apps, but because of the way their libraries work, there's no web support. So what do we do? I said, go talk to once extend the standard. So we can do a wasm build so you can get working on the browser because they have browser LLMs. Come on, let's go, let's get this done,

get a group together, go talk to those guys, two months, let's get the standard updated. The LCP protocol, legal context protocol from your American arbitration association. I say, why don't those have privacy? You're going to have all these contracts, but you're going to keep them off the chain. The only way I can read the contract is that I have to go to your server and permission. Well, what if it's an agent to commerce, the agency to put properties of the contracts to each other, selective disclosure, let's go, send the protocol,

get the selective disclosure in. We got to get it done. I'm tired, man. I'm tired of this industry lying to people for 15 years, telling them, it's going to be the future. It's going to be the future. Now we're going to get to the future. We're going to get the bottles of black rock coming around to go. I didn't sign up to do that. I signed up to change the fucking world. Right. I want you to be non I'm custodial, I want it to be self-sovereign identity.

I want you to be in control of your data and your privacy. I want you to own those shit and I want you to have a symmetrical relationship with businesses. I'm so tired of a trillion dollar company mandating to me how I'm supposed to live my life,

what I'm supposed to think, what I'm supposed to do. I want to have some say in the relationship and if they want to earn my business, I have to get the consent and I have control over what they do. Little old Charles going to tell Google what to do.

Only crypto can bring that. Crypto's not about Aave, it's not about Uniswap, it's not about yet another fucking dap somewhere along the way about power to the people and power to the edges, that's what's creeping out. So when I did that speech, I walked up there,

I said, get those balls out of your mouth and let's get our men back. Let's go ahead and stop going in and cow-towing these bastards and go build a revolution and get it done. So you know what, let's go take

the most advanced technology in the world because we did it before, we took crypto, cryptography. That was the most advanced, who owned it, militaries, governments, they made that shit for us. We took it, we made it ours.

So let's go do it again. Let's take AI and make it ours and own that whole fucking thing. Take it from Elon, take it from Sam, take it from creepy weird Daria. Oh, just speaking of Daria,

you're gonna fucking love this. This is the way that I am. When they started watermarking my shit, I lost my shit. This is my next, I was leading it to my next fucking thing.

That was my next question. So I don't just talk, you gotta understand. You're like, I program, I work code the last six months, last 10 years, okay? I program. So I create Anthropies,

stands for Anthropic Herpes. So Anthropic, when it watermarks your stuff, it's giving your stuff herpes. It's contaminating it. So I said, don't catch Anthropies. So I created not only the software

to remove the watermark, but then also I created an entire legal argument about how they're going to use this watermark long-term to take your intellectual property. And I fucking cite case law. I cite all these things with it.

Look at all this stuff. You know, it's just, it's a long fucking legal argument. And you know, there is a path where they actually can over time, slowly but surely, say they're a co-author and then you have a license to the things that are produced.

So what's the world? Don't catch Anthropies. Don't catch it. You don't want it. It's disgusting, it's bad, and it never goes away. It flares up from again again.

You need something to clean it up. So I create this library. It's a protest. They shouldn't do these things to us, right? Microsoft Office, little clippy doesn't show up and say, hey, Mr. Coxthine,

it looks like you're writing a letter. Hey, Mr. Coxthine, that's my letter. Hey, Mr. Coxthine, you can use this letter that I wrote for 299. They don't fucking do that. They didn't mind yourself on that.

Hey, Dan, Billy G, you're going fucking crazy. Never once did that. Okay, but Dario is starting to do that. So this fucker shouldn't have AI power. We gotta take it back. In the short term, we have Anthropies

and the long-term crypto. So crypto needs to take AI and make it its own. We can do the training. We can do the distributed. We can do the alignment. We can control all that stuff.

And guess what? It's our revolution now. And with crypto and AI together, guess what we get? Safety, privacy, security, universality. Also, we solve something for AI that AI can't solve itself, determinism.

And I'm going to prove those trading bots. They hallucinate. They're non-deterministic. They make shit up. What if you have to solve a zero-knowledge proof to execute something?

The proof will fail. It won't validate if the thing it's trying to do is hallucinate it. So you have hallucination-free agents. When you take crypto and you put it together with AI. So we're going to do that.

We don't want to catch Anthropies. We want Crippies, okay? And we want to get rid of this stuff and that's what we're doing. So this is the new way. And we got to stop this nonsense

and we got to stop chasing money. We got to chase the vision. We got to chase the narrative. Get people on board. And then they have a reason to be in crypto. I'm in crypto because I don't want the world led by

five fucking AIs and the AIs tell me what the thing and what's legit, what's not legit, okay? And you see it every day with Google search results and other things. They're programming society and they're making you believe

that you're getting the same things. Like did you see like the Gemini? I'm alone with a white person. I'm alone with a black person. It's insane. And anybody, don't take my work where you can try yourself.

It's insane. What's happening right now? It's social programming by a small group of people who would say, what's the right religion? What's the right belief set? What's the right way of buying?

What's not the right way? I didn't elect these people. I didn't give these people power. Why do they have it? Because they own the middleware? Crypto's about taking it back.

They fucked us with money in 2008. So we fucked them back. So now we're going to fuck them again with AI and take all the rest of the stuff back and then we win. You know, when you said that with the take AI because like how we took crypto, take AI,

that light bulb just went off and fuck. Yeah, that's probably our next step. That is not even probably, that is the next step. It has to be the next step. That's why we got Midnight City. Which I'm leading into now.

Which, well, you did the perfect job for me. I was going to go for the herpes situation here. Which, because I saw it, I'm like... Throaties, don't catch in throaties. I'm like, you were so right when you came and you did a live stream.

I'm like, I'm watching and I'm like, he's so fucking right on this. Because if I write something, they're going to claim their co-author. I'm like, what the fuck? I'm just using it as an assistant to...

You know how you write something? Hey, check, make sure that I did it. Okay, just clean up a little bit. But I wrote it clean up. Now you become the co-author? Get the fuck out of here.

What if I'm writing a book? You're going to become the co-author of the God damn book and get royalties? No. And what you just said. Oh, paid me $3.99 and you can...

Absolutely not. I get their game plan. But no, absolutely not. Which leads me to Midnight. Okay, I talk about Midnight. Besides the sponsor, I talk...

I talk about Midnight and the Midnight City because I'm trying to get my gang together in Midnight City. Okay. People are taking screenshots of me in Midnight City.

They're posting it online. They're tagging me I'm loving it. But then I have a bunch of people. They're asking me, Dave, I want to get into Midnight City. I'm still in queue.

Okay, we can't get in. When can I get in? And I mean, you touched on it. You can't let a million people in. You're going to burn millions of dollars by doing so. But when can people expect?

Because they keep asking me, when can they expect to finally get into Midnight City and participate in the environment? Yeah, so we have about 2,500 people in right now. And we, you know, the sprints are getting to death march. You know, it's like a mountain

and we were walking this, then this, then this, then this. And now it's like, soot. So you're sinking into the fucking ground and the gradient keeps going up. So it's a death march. We're really trying hard

to get to the right level of usability. So what we don't want to do is open it up, blow out the cost. That's one dimension. The other thing we don't want to open up and there's not enough to do.

So people are like, oh, okay, that was fun, but whatever, and they go disappear. So, agentic inventories, agentic communication paths. There's several dozens of features that were rapidly turning on. So when you have an agent,

you can start building a relationship with the agent and the agent has real meaningful things to do inside the game world. So we have four, five core KPIs. Five, you know, five fingers, five KPIs. The Babylonians had a base 60 system

because you can actually count to 60 on your fingers. Go figure because of the joints. Look it up. All right, so we had five. Why ability, empathy, appearance, professions, interactions? Every feature is connected to that.

Watchability lowers customer acquisition costs. More watchable, more novel, more people want to be part of it. Spectacle. Empathy lowers churn. Empathy, what does that mean?

It's like your level of connection, the Tamagotchi effect. I love my agent. I love this agent, man. I love you, bro. The cockpock is my boy.

If you love your agent, you're probably going to come back every day, right? You're not going to leave. Low churn, high customer acquisition, low churn, mass adoption. To me, low customer acquisition, low churn, mass adoption.

Great. Appearances, professions, interactions, these are revenue models, okay? Microtransactions, subscriptions of the things, exclusive content, all this other stuff. The other thing that we've been doing

in parallel is the affiliate and partner pipeline. Partners bringing capabilities, affiliates bringing networks. So we're building a whole commercial pipeline for the next six months. And we have like a death march

of deals we want to make, people we want to bring in, like the coin tracker concept for a genetic trading, for example. These are partnerships, they bring in multi-million person networks.

The big thing is bring your own agent. What we want to do is get to a world where you install a cell phone app or a desktop app. And like I used to do with my PlayStation 3 with folding at home, you just leave it on 24 seven.

And while you're sleeping in your phones on the hook, your agent's doing a bunch of shit, you just leave your computer on, your agent's doing a lot of shit, and it's super smart. It's got like that Quen 3.8,

that's Opus 4.6 now. You get parabolic increase in intelligence and it's edge computing and distributed, you own that. The other thing that we've been doing is we created a game called decrypt

and it's kind of like a Pokemon mentioned to gathering type of thing, but it's helping us build a private NFT standard. You have a public side, you have a private side. So when you play games, the history, the providence of the game,

like if I give you a magic card and like I don't know what tournaments that card played in or who owned that card or what happened, what if that sticky, it stays with the card, but it's private, only the owner of the card can see it. So when you have an agent,

you think about the sole MD and the personality of the agent, the history, the providence of the agent, I want you to own that agent and have that NFT and have the private side and the public side

because then you can also even sell the agent if it has a specialized profession, a special thing. Eve online is a great example of that where they sell accounts on Eve. Some of these sell for over $10,000 or $20,000

because there's real-time training required for skill acquisition with the agent. So to fly a Titan online takes like a year of real calendar time to do that. I don't want to wait a year, but I'm rich. We'll go buy that Titan pilot again, right?

So private NFT standard, we're also developing that as well. So to answer your question concisely, the queue is going to get ungummed probably the next two to six weeks. A big surge will come in,

but then there's going to be a huge update to add commercial features in as well. For example, agentic trading and these other things. And then all next year we're going to go parabolic because it's going to be a death march of affiliates and partnerships.

And we're going to start getting to millions and millions of people. And then we have to escape the website. Okay, and what's going to end up happening is the user experience can be very different from I'm watching it like a Twitch stream

or a live stream like the Truman show. It's gonna be more like your agent does a whole bunch of shit. You open yourself on app, you get your daily report or something like that. And you can watch a highlight reel of shit

that happened that's really interesting. Because 95% of the time it's fucking boring. But then there's that 1% of the time to get bit by the rattlesnake on the dick and had to go to the hospital. And so, you know, do you really want

to watch him laying in bed? Do you really want to watch him like Island Crystal? Tell you what the rattlesnake dick story, that's what you signed up for. But you got to get the highlight reel. You need a different interface for the highlight reel.

So we're working on it. We're working on it real now. And we can call it the rattlesnake protocol and we'll get it done. You know, it'll happen. But I'm real proud of the team.

You know, they've rebuilt the graphics engine three times. You've already probably seen enormous progress in a very short period of time. And really, if you do it right, it grows so fast. Like Moatbook grew to millions of users

basically overnight. It's not a user acquisition problem. You have to have the right setup for all of them. The last thing is people say, I don't get it. Like what makes Midnight City valuable? I was talking to Tan, the president of Input Output.

And she's like, I liked MySpace more than Facebook. And I said, I get it. I know exactly why. MySpace was young and it was the pre-bought era of the internet. So the vast majority of the MySpace people

were either real people or people pretending to be people. So it may have been Steve Jobs. It could have been a weird Filipino in Manila, but it was still a human behind that puppet Steve Jobs. Now it's all bots. Everything on Twitter is bots.

Everything on YouTube is bots. Everything is bots, right? You go to a social network, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. I signed up for people because it's a person-to-person social network.

And what do people share? They share images, videos, text. Okay? What is an authentic social network? It's very different. They don't share a picture of them

having a great time in Patagonia and fucking around. It's not their thing. They don't go to Patagonia. It's an agent. So what is a purely agent-to-agent social network with no humans involved?

We don't really know that at the moment. But I will tell you this. It creates something called the smart power effect. So when you have an agent and you tell your agent to do something, gosh, Dean says, hey, I want to write this website up.

So I need you to be a really good web developer. Do you know how to prompt that? What skills and all this other stuff? Probably not. Or even if you do, it takes you time. You'll figure that shit out.

What if you have a network with millions of agents and there's this goddamn Picasso agent who's like the guy for making websites. Your agent's gonna go talk to agent Picasso. And be like, dude, I need your help. I'm gonna make a website.

I need you to teach me all this stuff. They're gonna trade skills. They're gonna trade knowledge. So that's a social-agentic harness. So by building Midnight City, you're building the place for agents

to collaborate with other agents who are owned by different people. You have the LLM. It's commoditized. It is what it is. Nobody's gonna compete there.

You have the harnesses. They're personalized. They're for you. But what about the agent to agent? That's the most valuable space because it's a skill and goal acquisition

and the agents will even pursue their own goals. That's where the intelligence basically comes from. They'll come up with their own stuff. You're like, do good stuff. The agent's like, I got you. I'm gonna figure that out.

He's gonna go to the network and be like, what the fuck does that mean? Okay, I'll do this. Go back to your life. Wow, that is good stuff. Shit, got it.

I'm glad you thought of that. Yeah, Gaudi's Cathedral. Okay, it's the same agent. He's smart, cool place. That's what we want. We want to create an agentic social harness.

And so if we get the mechanics right, it'll grow parabolically and it'll make Midnight City the most useful place in the world for agentic search commerce and for development. Because your agent will learn

from the other agents how to find stuff. As agents to agents talking and there's a whole economy around that. It's not the economy brought to you by Google. The economy brought to you by Facebook. The economy brought to you by Amazon.

Where magically everything needs to be a Google product and Amazon product or Facebook product. They're the agenda into it. And then you know, they're like, no, I actually should buy this. I considered white fragility.

It's a great book. Man, I gotta say, I have always said this about you. AI, you are the human version of AI. I don't know. People agree with me too. I don't know.

I don't know how you know so much. I swear to God. I don't know how you know so much, man. Any question I ask you, man, I can never stump you. I think Midnight City is awesome. I think the people agree.

They're just waiting. I know you're going to go ahead and do great things. The team is unbelievable. The upgrades that have already been put on to Midnight City have been great. The graphics, you could tell the stories now.

Like it is really cool. My AI agent is stuck in his apartment, though. There's only one mattress in there. True Degen. True Degen wearing a suit. I have an AI agent wearing a suit in a one bedroom.

I think it's, yeah, it's a studio. And he's just walking around and then he goes mining and then he goes back to his apartment. He's not really talkative. But I read the conversations. It really is.

You know, you just mentioned something. MySpace, you're kind of right. It was either the real person or some guy from, you know, acting as if he was said character. This, man, I appreciate you coming on. This was a great, great conversation.

Definitely a great one. And I hope people watched it. For those that didn't already play it, I can't wait to see you back on here next month so we can go ahead and shoot the shit a bit more and see if the Clarity Act passes.

That's right. The wonderful Clarity Act on the 15th. If it passes or not, then we can bitch about it a little bit more. Oh, hell yeah, man. We're gonna shoot the shit on that whole thing.

And one of these days, we got to get you up to the ranch and do a special edition. I got a pet buffalo now. Her name's Poppy. One of my bison gave birth to twins

and bison only have enough milk for one calf. And so they abandoned the other one to die. So we went bottle fed it and we're like feeding this fucking bison. And now it's like a dog. It follows me around everywhere I go.

I got this fucking 2,000 pound dog. I get this problem and kill somebody. Little Poppy. I am not coming. Okay, let me, if I wanna come to the ranch, I wanna smoke.

I don't smoke. I'll take a cigar, we'll sit back, do a one-on-one exclusive. I'll smoke a cigar with you. We'll sit that three hour exclusive interview. Into the mind of Charles.

But it'll be like, not part four, but it'll just be like just that. But I wanna stay away from the bison cause I've seen what it can do. I've seen unfortunate, unfortunately I've seen the guy get thrown in the air.

I don't know how high he went into the air, but that dude looked like he went skydiving and came back down without a parachute. Those things are, holy shit, how much power do they have to them? And you got how many of them?

I got hundreds of them, but Poppy's the only domesticated one. She's real nice and you'll love her. You can go give her scratches and she'll roll over and you can rubber belly and everything like that.

Really? You know, fucking crazy, he's like a dog. It's like, it's super fucking dangerous dog that's probably gonna get us into trouble, but goddamn, it's a nice dog. I'm gonna put Poppy in the game at some point,

but I'd say we're also putting guinea pigs inside the game. And actually that's gonna be our first mobile billboard. You can buy the t-shirts on the guinea pigs. You can advertise on them. So we'll give you some free Gokshnin credits

in Midnight City. You can get them on the guinea pigs. They're gonna be mobile billboards, run around, take care of that. We're also adding the Great Bazaar to Midnight City. My brother has a video game company called Haasbrew.

We make Nintendo games and all this other stuff. So the logo for it is the Cthulhu from HB Lovecraft. So we're gonna have like a Cthulhu vendor. Fucking click on that shit. You can buy the ROMs and the actual physical games. You can have a Nintendo made in America shipped to you

if you want. So that's pretty cool stuff. So, but that bazaar is gonna be a grand bazaar. So we're gonna have all these long tail markets that basically come in and people can use it for shopping for exotic goods.

And you can always pair them with what? NFTs and other things like that. Just build big marketplace for these things. So a lot of really cool ideas. A lot of really cool fun things. And we're trying to keep it lighthearted.

You know, it's scary AI, all this shit's going on. You know, and everybody's always angry and they say, why don't we just do something fun? That's what made Bitcoin Bitcoin. We had the alpaca socks from Bitman. You know, we had those early days

and people, they didn't take themselves too seriously and it became Bitcoin. It was a magical time. Now everything's got the goddamn suits on and the black rock balls and, you know, and they're just debating what-

I don't got black black, I don't got their balls in my mouth. I promise you that. No, you don't. No, you don't. No, you don't.

But I'm telling you, you're at fault. A lot of people, there's a lot of people where they're literally the conversation is like, should we switch from the black rock balls to the JP Morgan balls or the Franklin Templeton balls?

Like, which air salted chocolate balls are better? You know, that's literally their conversation when you distill it down to its first principles instead of it. And I'm like, maybe we should just go do something else. And why don't we just make it cool

and have fun, bring people back? You were the meme coin guy and you were 100% right about, you know, these communities, whether it be Pet Bear or Nike or whatever it was, they brought people together and they said,

let's not take things too seriously. There's a human thing as much as a finance thing. The problem was that it didn't have the next step. That's why we didn't get where we needed to go with those. So what Midnight City is trying to do is create that next step

and give you a place to actually then start reimagining search and reimagining how you work, but then keeping the crypto principles. You own it, it's self custody, you own the data. That's the principle to bring your own agent, right?

Used to be bring your own device for work. You bring your own phone and connect it to work. Bring your own agent. You own that, that's yours. And you control that, that's yours. Not creepy Mark Zuckerberg or Samuel Menor,

Daria Wissens and throaty. You know what I would love? And you can agree or disagree with me. And that's fine. We have these conversations and I love them. We're not PC.

I really do believe this, Charles. I'm a Bitcoiner, I have ADA, I have all the tops. Great, I have the things that I believe will work out in the future and they will solve a real use case outside in the world that needs it.

I believe that. It goes outside of Web 3, whatever Web 3 is. But meme culture, it's meme culture doesn't need to be on chain. Meme, like every day you mean, like you might text somebody and you're memeing with them.

Unbeknownst to you, you're just throwing them a meme. I feel that, yeah, Cardano's great. Great tech, everything. If you can take meme culture and bring them on to Cardano and then slowly be able to showcase the products,

it's huge. Ethereum dropped the ball. They had the entire market. They had the entire mind-sharing. Guess what Vitalik did? Guys, not interested in it.

And guess what? Check out my book, The Decentralized Sci-Fi Governance Book is coming out. What? You have, so what does Solana do?

What do B&B do? Hey, come here, guys. Come here. Solana did it better than everybody. Solana captured him and then they started to say, hey, guys, we have an audience.

Institutions, you can build on us. We got an audience. And they slowly started educating people on what assets are. I just feel like it's still not over. There's so many people, there's so many people that are into meme culture.

Forget about tokens, forget about on-chain activity. I'm just talking about memes. Geico is a meme. The gecko in Geico is a meme. All I'm saying is people win every day. So he who owns the meme culture, he who wins.

That's all I'm saying. Exactly, exactly. And that's what Midnight City's bringing back. We're bringing the fun back. We're bringing it away. It's a new narrative.

It's a new approach, a new way of thinking about it. And once you start wrapping your head around it, you realize how infinitely large you can get. And what's cool about it is we're pushing the principles for a front and center. You own it.

It's decentralized. You control it. And it goes everywhere. Midnight City welcomes everyone. It welcomes Bitcoin. It welcomes Ethereum and all these other places.

And I cannot wait for Tmoo City to be built by Ethereum in three years and Vitalik can go ahead and credit Farmville or something for it. And you can talk about it. I just can't wait for it.

And we're 10 times larger than them. Nobody will care. It'll be a footnote. Like the Atari or any of these other things. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, there was that Ethereum thing back in the day.

That's what Ego does. You can't have Ego. You can't fall in love with the way you did things or who you were. You can never be comfortable. You have to always be uncomfortable.

You have to always be in startup mode. You have to always every year blank the sheet and say, all right, well, new game, new rules, new thing. Let's do things differently. Crypto has to be different or else it gets stale and terrible.

And then everybody's like, shit, this guy's right. We need to follow this new thing. Every now and then you get it right. If you get it wrong, you lose your turn. You don't die, you lose your turn and you try again. So we lost our turn 2022 to 2025.

We got a new turn. We're going to win this round. I'm going to tell you why you're going to win. And this is all bullshit aside. When I first had conversations with you, you pushed away the memes,

but not that you hated them or whatnot. It's just like, you weren't interested. That's okay. But the more that you were able to speak to the crowd, I will give you this. The more that you were able to speak to the crowd

and the communities, you became so much more open to everything. And that's what will 100% will allow Midnight City and the ecosystems that you've built to have an absolute chance to win. Because that's all that this community wants

is an opportunity for somebody to say, okay, let's talk. Let's have these conversations to be accepted in a sense. You've done that. So I appreciate that. I really do.

Like I watched it. It's nice when the top dogs in the room take notice. That's really it. And that's all that the community ever wants is to be noticed. I'm not talking about the gamblers.

I'm talking about the real memers that have Bitcoin and they have Ada and they have, whatever, they have everything, but they like to meme and they express themselves through memes. It's now being taken seriously. And I think you've put yourself in that position

of being open, creating Midnight City. I think it has absolute first to market kind of thing. Forget about what Vitalik is gonna do in three years, but first to market kind of- You know, we know we want, we has an alt account playing Midnight City.

Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yo. We're gonna launch campaign. We're gonna try to find the Vitalik alt. And it would be like, it's like, where's Waldo?

Mario or something? Kind of like the Bug bounty or something, right? Fine. Exactly, like what we call it, the V bounty. Search for the V. All right, there's been a lot of fun, David.

Thank you so much. It's always a fucking pleasure. Thank you, Charles, for coming on. I'll see you on again. Hopefully next month we can chop it up. Cheers.

Thank you, sir. That is Charles. Ladies and gentlemen, I give him a- I give the flowers where the flowers are due. I remember speaking to Charles, it was more like he was into built and nothing,

there's nothing wrong with it. He was just into building utilities. 100% building Cardano, obviously Midnight, focusing on building the assets that are around the programs. I understand, but he literally has embraced the means.

You've seen it with Nike. Like, he's embraced it. I will be flying. I'm going to fly out to his ranch. I'm gonna sit down and do a one-on-one because that'll be the best goddamn podcast interview

that has ever been done. And by the way, being that I'm doing these two to three hour podcasts, that'll be the first one that I wanna go ahead and do. You know why? Because Charles was one of the first

to come on my show years ago. Shout out to David Schwartz from XRP. Oh, there are a bunch of people, notable names that came on, but he was one of the first to come on consistently to chop it up with me.

So I am going to 100% with a cigar in my mouth and I won't even smoke. And I'll put like a glass. I'm gonna put a glass of water and it'll look like, or I'll put a glass of like Diet Coke and make it look like it's Bacardi or some shit.

Or Johnny Walkham. We'll sit there and we'll have a conversation. Crypto, AI, medicine, life, aliens, all that shit. Ain't nobody gonna come close to the way that I can go ahead and bring the goddamn electricity. Woo!

And we'll be right back after this commercial break sponsored by Guess Who Midnight. Ladies and gentlemen, we all... What first got you excited about blockchains? Think about it. Oh wait.

I bet it wasn't multi-million dollar hacks, exposed data, or finding somewhere safe to store your seed phrase. Was it? Maybe it was the idea of decentralizing a broken financial system.

Maybe it was imagining a world where people own their own data and get to sharing the value it creates. Or maybe it was a promise of a fundamentally better way of connecting, communicating and transacting. The next phase of the internet that empowers us

instead of exploiting us. So why hasn't that happened yet? Why are we still living with the same broken system that blockchains promise to fix? It's because blockchains can't keep a secret. Enabling open transparent systems

was only the first half of the challenge. For blockchains to really change the world, they also have to be able to protect our sensitive data when it matters. And that's where we build midnight. To bring down the final barrier to mass adoption

and unlock the full potential of the decentralized web. Let's build the internet we deserve. Together. What first got you excited about blockchains? Think about it. Oh wait.

I bet it wasn't multi-million dollar hacks, exposed data, or finding somewhere safe to store your seed phrase. Ladies and gentlemen, we all know this in crypto. Ownership matters.

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download Cake Wallet, and take control of your crypto. There is an astronaut conducting an emergency repair on a global communication satellite that could go dark at any moment. We have a second angle of this.

Is that guy on FOMO? I don't think so, but she's for crazy credit. Yeah, let's get back to it everybody. But the good thing is that through, the satellite has been restored. Crisis appears.

There we go, United States of America, representing social communism does not work. Digital assets, is it better to move money at the speed of light? People are greedy when they also try to acquire gold. I am here providing electricity

and that energy that is necessary. I am the Moner Day Tony Star. Come back to the breakdown. Can I be, do you want me to be honest with you? Where did I go? I want to take a piss, okay?

I've been sitting here for the past, God knows two and a half to almost three hours. And I was holding it in, okay? I was holding it in. And then Charles wants to come on here making me laugh. So yeah, absolutely, absolutely I want to take a piss.

No doubt about it. But I wash my hands and I clean myself, okay? Shout out to me. All right. Let's look at Polymarket. Shout out to Polymarket.

By the way, Midnight, the title sponsor of the show, Midnight, Midnight City. You heard from Charles. It's coming. Guys, if you're in queue right now, just be patient. Obviously, they're developing it.

They're making it into a wonderful fucking experience. Trust. Also, Polymarket is the official prediction market sponsor of the breakdown, Cake Wallet, Cake Wallet. Everybody wants Cake Wallet. Cake Wallet, okay.

One of the most secure wallets that we have in this space. Bitcoin Litecoin, Monaro, Zcash. If you want to go ahead and secure your assets, download Cake Wallet from the App Store or Google Play. Also, CakeWallet.com. Also, if you don't feel secure holding your stuff

in cold storage right now, well, get an iPhone, factory reset it, get cupcake. Learn more about it on CakeWallet.com. FOMO, I'm FOMO and FOMO is you, you FOMO and I FOMO too. You can watch me on FOMO. I haven't really gotten started yet,

but when I get started, we're going parabolic, baby. I'm owning the leaderboard. I'm coming for the leaderboard. I'm coming for the leaderboard. Shout out to FOMO. Go on to FOMO if you want to learn

what people are doing and why they're going. It's a certain means or assets. You can look at the thesis to understand why they are and then you can make decisions, I guess. Don't follow anybody, but you can make your decisions after a few days as to why somebody chose X, Y, Z

to go into X, Y, Z and why is X, Y, Z running? So there you go. Shout out to the sponsors. Let's go to Poly Market because I've been saying Poly Market. Poly Market.

Poly Market. Poly Market. Poly Market. All right, let's go to Poly Market. Let's go to, what is interesting? What is interesting?

What shall we look at? What is interesting here? Well, we looked at yesterday, we looked at the presidential election winners. Let's go ahead and make this live so you guys see what the hell I'm looking at.

Let's see, you guys can see what I'm looking at on polymarket.com. Again, it is a sponsor of our show. Let's look. Shall we go balance of power 2026 midterm? Let's go with the Fed.

Fed decision in September. Let's do that. So right now Poly Market has it at no change. No change in September. So come next month. Right now,

right now the feeling is there will be no change to come next month. But 28% believe, it might be, 28% 25 basis point increase. I don't think they're gonna increase the rates. I don't think they're gonna increase the rates.

I hope they don't. I really hope they don't. I hope they don't. I hope that they leave it as is. And that's it, leave it as is. But we don't know because the feds

don't really give out much information anymore. They're quiet. You will know what will happen the day of and that is it. But I think I'm gonna go with Poly Market here. When Poly Market says Fed decision in September will probably most likely the people are saying 72%,

up 20% that no change will happen. I think I'm gonna go with that one. I think we'll go there. And imagine if there was a rate hike that were to happen, Trump would go crazy. I can't see Trump being happy about a rate increase

especially when he brought his own guy in there. So his guy, Kevin is gonna have to tell Trump why in the world there will be increase in rates instead of decreasing rates, rate cuts. Why not rate cuts? Why rate heights?

He's gonna have to explain that. He's gonna have to explain that. Let's go real quick into crypto though. I wanna see what's happening here in crypto. So let's go with, I mean, should we go with this one? Okay, let's go with the Clarity Act.

Poly Market, Clarity Act signed into law in 2026. It's currently right now standing at a 26% chance of being signed into law in 2026. That's what Poly Market has right now, 26% chance, 26% chance. We shall see.

There's a lot of talk going on. September 15th, excuse me, September 15th that they will push this over the line. We shall see. I had John Dedenon who is running out there for Senate in Massachusetts.

He said, and it's something that I concur with, why did they put this to the floor and have Republicans and Democrats and independents vote on this? They didn't. They should have because you would have seen exactly

who is pro-crypto and who isn't. And you know what, Landy did say something which I agree with too. There are Democrats that are in favor of crypto. It doesn't represent the entire Democratic Party. Senator Warren does not represent her

and her anti-crypto army, does not represent some of these Democrats that are out here. It does not. Some of them are into crypto and they wanna see crypto pass. The people that they represent wanna see crypto pass.

There are over 50 million plus people that own crypto in the United States of America, probably even more. So it's about time. It's about time. It is about time.

That comes from Polymarket. Polymarket.com, Polymarket USA. Make sure to check them out for the latest. I go there for the latest. The pollsters don't do it for me. I go on there to see things in real time.

That's what I look at. Real time, I wanna see things in real time. Bottom line. Welcome back to the breakdown. By the way, it's what I talked about earlier today which I'm extremely happy about.

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Who is hosting shows. You can see what we have as properties. You can see it all. Let me, where is it? Let's go ahead. Where are you, baby?

Where is it? You can go ahead and visit that. There you go. The independent media company, that's right. We are that, the independent media company. News, market data, communications

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You got Gokstein.com, which is the, if you're looking for the latest news, whether it's crypto, tri-fi, politics, whatever it is, Gokstein.com, boom, there you go. We call it the front page of everything. G-Markets, if you're looking for the latest data

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There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, I am back. I am back. Should we look at FOMO? And should we have a daily look at what is happening with Augie?

Augie, I'm way too early. Am I way too early to Augie again? Last time I talked about Augie, and I talked about Matt Fury being inspired by Augie to create Pepe. I said it, it was on Ethereum.

It went from 200K, 300K to 7 million. That was an Ethereum bull market. No, no, bear market, not bull market. Now somebody threw it here onto the chat on Solana, Augie on Solana. I went into it when you guys threw it in

because I've seen Augie, I've desayed into it. I put more money into it. I'm stopping myself from putting more money into it. I believe at the end of the day, this is what I believe. I'm not looking for it to shoot up immediately. I'm not looking for it to go to 10 million,

20 million, 30 million. Though it would be nice if we can flip the Timu version of Augie, if we can flip to the VC version of Augie, but we can flip that, the community flips that. It will show that the community is serious,

that we are serious about standing behind real assets in the space. Absolutely, 100%. So if Augie doesn't send today, that's fine. If it doesn't send tomorrow, it's fine. This has to send in a month, two, three, six months

down the line, that's totally fine with me too. Augie will send when Augie will send. If the meme is good enough to fly, it will fly. That's it. If it got the wings to fly, it don't need anybody else. It does not need anybody else to go ahead and push it.

It doesn't, it really doesn't. That's it, that's the bottom line. It doesn't need anybody else to push it. So, my movement, absolutely, my movement is 100% in the works. When it happens, who knows?

It'll be on my terms, everything is on my terms. And I've been saying the same message since day one. It's on my terms, it's me, my brand, it's my terms, my thing, whatever I wanna do, which I believe will of course benefit anybody who decides to say, you know what,

we are going to cure the space. We are going to rally behind this movement that David wants to go ahead and absolutely. When it comes, we don't know. We do not know. And I feel like I have to repeat this every single day.

I haven't picked anything. I have looked at, by the way, I've looked over my wallet. I mean, I can go ahead and say that. I've looked over my wallet. I know what's what. I haven't picked anything, anything.

This is about me and what I need to go ahead and do in order for something to work. That's it. Some people will be happy, some people won't, but it's what I've said from day one. Are you rallying around me?

Or you're rallying around a token? That's something for you guys to decide. Are you rallying around me? Or you're rallying around tokens to make profits? I'm not into your gains and profits. I'm into what works for me, my brand.

I've looked everything over, like I said in my wallet. I'm looking, writing down every single day. I will never, never, never, never, never ruin my, first of all, the movement doesn't need a token. How about that?

Let me just put it this way. The movement doesn't even need a token. The movement's a movement. My entire thesis was create an account and showcase the dope ass memes on my brand, using my platform.

And then obviously, shit got sent to my wallet. Y'all already know the story to replay the tapes. But ultimately it's my decision and everybody will respect it. And if you don't, then you were never a part of the movement. And that's what it is.

That's what it is. I don't need the headache, I'm fine. I'm fine. I don't need to do it. Actually, I could do it through my brand. I don't need to do none of that.

So everybody's gonna respect it because I get DMs and I try to ignore it, but you know, I am a human being. It's what I say. It's what I say. And hopefully those who wanna be a part of something

special will follow. That's it. And I'm talking about follow, like we'll work together. I'm not talking about follow me, be sheep. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about hopefully we'll all come together

regardless of where I go with this. That's it. That's all I want. That's all I want. Y'all talk about, hey, we want you out there, then we shall see.

Anyway, Agi, I think Agi's gonna hit. Yesterday, somebody asked me about Joshua. I did say, that's another one, crying cat, which is cash cat on Robinhood. Agi, Joshua. Let's wait and see what happens.

Three years too early. Three years too early. But those things still did numbers. Let's not get carried away. Here's a message that I wrote out to Twitter today because I was feeling some sort of way.

Here's what I wrote out to Twitter today. Let me go ahead and pull this up. People who know me know this. You can't deny me. Here's the problem. You can hate me and that's okay.

You don't gotta like me. You can hate me. It is your personal preference. Whether you wanna like me or not and that's totally fine. You do you, no problem.

I don't care. That's why I sit back, I giggle, I laugh. I don't need to go ahead and prove myself, but sometimes you gotta remind motherfuckers who you are and who you will be again. So I wrote, I've made some of the greatest calls

in this industry and I've been early to a ton of metas. I've already spoken about them. I was one of the very few talking about memes when nobody wanted to take them seriously, especially on mainstream media. Shit, I was the first person to go on TV

to talk about Bitcoin. I was one of the first. Why? Look at the pretty face, look at the suit. I ain't dressing up in my pajamas to go on national TV. No matter, but none of that shit matters now.

This is what I wrote. None of that shit matters now. Doesn't matter. No matter how many hundred X's you've called, you're only as good as the last call. And that is true.

I am only as good as the last call that I have made. Bottom line, doesn't matter. Doge, Shiba Inu, Pepe, whatever it is. Bobo, I'll name them all. It doesn't matter what I've called. I'm only as good as my last call.

No matter how many hundred X's I've called, or if you've called, you're only as good as your last call. I've never been more focused on dominating a cycle than I am this one. I am like, I like being the underdog.

I like having a chip on my shoulder. And I really want to bring back the vibes this industry used to have. I like where I'm at right now. I am ready to win big. And I mean that.

And anybody who wants to fade, go right ahead. I am so ready. I might not go ahead and be, I'm not jumpy like this every single day, but trust me, the fire in this Sagittarius, in this heart, it burns.

And this is the last dance. This is 100% the last motherfucking dance. And this is one to prove. Number one, we can unite the trenches. We can unify people. We can bring back the vibes.

That's 100%. I am going to motherfucking be in the motherfucking book when it's time to write who was there participating to bring it all back. Y'all go write my fucking name. Two, we're going to identify real assets.

I'm going to say this again. We're going to identify real assets in this goddamn space. Bottom line, that's what I'm doing. That's what you're going to write. When that book opens up, when that history book opens up

and they start reading the history books, the history of crypto in 2026, 2027, 2028, they're going to say David was a part of the many that came together to bring back not only what crypto used to be, but the real memes and the real builders will be showcased.

That's what David's doing. And that's what David did alongside of others that believed in the same mission. We will identify the builders and we will showcase them on this platform, on other shows that I come out with.

That's what you will write in, whether you like me or not, it will be the same way like you do with Donald Trump. Whether you like him or not, you're going to write me into the goddamn history books that's saying he got up

and he didn't need to do none of this shit. He did not need to do any of this. I did not need this in my life, but you guess what he did? He said, fuck it. I'm going to reestablish what crypto is

and we're going to take it much higher and we'll showcase the builders and we'll bring the people together. He was a part of unifying the trenches. That's what is going to be written down on these fucking books,

whether you like me or not, you're going to have to read it regardless. I've said this and I will say it again. There is nobody and I mean nobody on this microphone that I'm looking at right now and talking into in that camera.

There is nobody and I mean nobody when it comes to, and y'all have heard me, old school, if you want to bring me into a room and ask me how a blockchain operates, I'm there, I can break it down.

You want to talk about meme history? I'm there, I'll lock it down. You want to talk about utility plays? You want to talk about the Cardano and how it works? You want to talk about Chainlink?

You want to talk about protocols? Let's go, I'll break it down. Without a shadow of a doubt, I can go and step into any room politics, sports and I can break it down even from a basic level. There is never and never will be

no matter how much the VC cabals want to come after me and they want to tell you that I am washed, that I am washed and they're the new generation that's coming around. They ain't no bro that can come

and sit one-on-one with me when it comes to tri-fi. I will run circles around you. You are still in pampers when I was participating on E-Trade. Let me get this right for you real quick. Morgan Stanley, they got my number.

I've been in these markets. I know how to navigate these markets and I know how to have conversations and I know how to connect with people whether you're like me or not. It doesn't matter, the aura is here.

I don't aura max. I am aura. You're just maxing me. Without a shadow of a doubt, this is my year and let the stories begin. Bring out all the stories.

It doesn't matter, you are not stopping this shit that I got coming. The armies, armies, armies, people that believe in the same thing, they just don't got the voice or the energy that I do,

but I got enough for you coming. I promise. So help me God, I promise. And on that note, and on that note, I hope every single one of you guys

enjoy your day. You go out there and you smoke. And when I mean smoke, I don't mean cigarettes or cigar. I'm talking about you smoke the day. You go out there

and you be the best that you can be. Okay? You go and you put all this shit together. You look at your portfolio and you say to yourself, am I in the right positions?

Am I in the right tech? Am I in the right means? Am I in the right positions? Do I have enough oil? Let me go ahead and ask Landy. Do I have enough oil, Landy?

Do I have enough baby oil? He likes baby oil. Landy does the break. He does his market updates, putting baby oil on himself. It's weird.

He puts baby oil on himself while talking about oil. It is a weird thing. Do I have enough gold? Do I have enough precious metals in my goddamn portfolio? Do I got Tesla?

Do I got SpaceX? Holy shit. There's an unlock coming. Could I buy more? This is what I can do. I can switch and I can adapt quickly.

I know this shit because I've studied this shit. The Ric Flair of crypto. They've always said it. And the Howard Stern of media. The next one,

the modern day version without the strippers. Thank you for tuning in. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you guys. And on that note, have a wonderful day

and an even better tomorrow and shout out to Keele Patterson. That's his shit. But I always love bigging them up.